Brian sits down in the middle of the Pacific Ocean with his closest friend and discusses a terminal cancer diagnosis, Denver Broncos Football, raising kids, marriage, faith, masturbation, the apocalypse, strip clubs, poker, Paris, Tahiti and the unforeseen gift and perspective that the terminal diagnosis has provided.....
Brian sits down in the middle of the Pacific Ocean with his closest friend and discusses a terminal cancer diagnosis, Denver Broncos Football, raising kids, marriage, faith, masturbation, the apocalypse, strip clubs, poker, Paris, Tahiti and the unforeseen gift and perspective that the terminal diagnosis has provided.....
This is the broken tiles podcast Special Edition, one on one conversation. My best friend, Gavin writer. Hey, go.
Gavin:Hey, man, how you doing?
Brian Upton:Can I do it different today? We are currently. I think from what they said a little while ago about 6000 feet of water underneath us right now.
Gavin:more water than I want to swim in. I
Brian Upton:will say that yeah, and a lot of water on our decks last night because we had 10 and 15 foot swells
Gavin:a lot of salt on this on the railing.
Brian Upton:We are on the Norwegian joy and finishing our Mexican Riviera trip. We have already gone to Cabo. We've been to Mazatlan and porta Viar toe correct and we're on our way to it
Gavin:and Sinatra.
Brian Upton:There we go to some taco tasting and things like that. Kind of a fun episode here we're going to be doing I guess we got to get the elephant out of the room right out the gate. They always say Gavin within the first four minutes of a podcast. Let them know what it's all about because you want to engage them and keep them and so we got one huge topic we got to get right out of the gate and I think it'll engage people and it's captivating.
Gavin:What's this about? Again,
Brian Upton:this is about the Broncos hired Sean Payton has a head coach.
Gavin:I love it.
Brian Upton:So little bit of a we will actually believe it or not in this podcast, we will cover that. But I think it's best Gavin like for like any intro to a guest. I can sit there and talk about you. I can. I think the best way to tell you that let's start there. Let's start where we met. I was well if I'm been married to Stacey now for coming up on 33 years. That means I've known you 34 years. Yeah, that's always easy. Easy math for me because it's hard to do. Friends Anniversaries are difficult because you know honestly either have a great school friend easy to do the math but a friend that you meet at 20 going on 20 I guess I was 22 when I met you seem right. You got me about what three years or two? How old are you right now?
Gavin:I am 57 But I'm soon to be 58 Yeah, so
Brian Upton:I'm soon to be 55. So we got three years gap there. But not to make it about me it's my favorite thing to do. But let's not make it about me. I when I first moved to Denver, we've talked a little bit about Stacey nice story on the podcast for us how we met but the first job that I got that was proper was at a community called the breakers in East Denver. Beautiful concept community gated community apartments on a lake all the amenities health club pool, and so are this thanks for Buzz killing the whole thing that's like, that's not really that big of a story, a bar. And so I got a job as a think this might be not too many other people on the planet get a job hired as a bar manager and health club manager at the same exact time. It's a nice combination. I took the job and I said well you know how many people might expect you on that first day whether they said there's two people officially that live here right now. And I think they said you and Joey had signed you would go in first Joey was first Joey was the first like one of the first least sign you were right behind him. And so I went up in I got the health club kind of set up over a couple of weeks and then we finally set a date to open the bar. I went up there and I think I sat in there for about two hours didn't see anybody and then Gavin Ryder walked in
Gavin:are we use last names now? Well,
Brian Upton:remember I told you before we can edit all of all of this can be edited. And that's where we started and I think at that point I would have been 21 I think I think you would have been 24 I would have been 21 It would have been the summer of whatever year that was and I think we were joking at dinner the other night you know I think there's two different paths all the times to what makes a best friend but I think you're you and I at the beginning was that bar and time sitting right across from each other and for many of those first couple months no one else there so we got to know each other really fast in a different way because the superficial bullshit kind of goes you know you can only say How about them Broncos in how about that weather so many days in a row before you like I think I want to get to know this guy
Gavin:Yeah, well I think to the it's not just even there you know our friendship last to you moving to New York then moving back to California back to Colorado then to California I mean, that's a long friendship that you know a lot of times distance hurts friendships, but we've been we hung out pretty good good trans friends for a while you're new
Brian Upton:and I better than any other friend this is what kind of catapults I really have a tight community of friends that one of them's my friend Charles, who you know his name, his dad and they put us together and we're three years old. And so we've got A big number, we've got a big 52 year number we've officially been friends and for many stretches, inseparable, but also for times in between long gaps where we weren't that great at it, you and I overall, stayed pretty great at it. You know, I can't think off the top of my head. I'm not gonna be overdramatic about it. But there might have been some months because of transition and things like that. I don't think we ever locked together years of really not talking to each other on some level.
Gavin:No, you've been one of my best friends as far as talking to, you know, staying in touch. And you know, I don't have Facebook, so I'm really tough to stay in touch with you gotta call me I mean, I'm not even good at texting. So,
Brian Upton:actually, this eventually, we're gonna get to some historical record. I'll stop right there. But I do want I want you to take it's kind of a bullshit question. But I think for a podcast, I do want to quite quickly get back to you, your family, the writer family in Denver, a little bit and sort of they, they need to kind of meet you in a little bit the same way that I did, you know, you know, 30 3040 years ago, we weren't killed the whole time with it. But I do think we need to get a basis of who you are, who your family is your Denver, kind of like history. But I do want to jump ahead to one that probably would have come up anyways. Why no social media
Gavin:paranoia. I mean, I just whatever reason, just kind of technological adverse, technological, technologically ignorant. I just missed I mean, even though back in high school that crazy basic computer programming but no, I just I just kind of missed it. And then I was always kind of that guy with a silver head on the head. And yeah, you know, just didn't want I don't know. I think Edward Snowden kinda Bolton cap off there. I think I think, you know, if anyone you know if you know what Edward stone said, and I was right,
Brian Upton:that's exactly right. I think for me, I'm on the polar opposite. I'm always assuming that that was happening. I'm not discounting your conspiracy theories. But I'm like, if they get to me, this is one boring fucking world. If for some reason they eventually want to get to Brian Upton, and hack my shit. One. For you know, this is for long periods of time. That's the last credit you wanted. You didn't you finally had a successful profile hack and account hacker Brian Upton, you find out there$7 in the bank?
Gavin:Well, I think too, I mean, I, you know, for me, honestly, really more concerned about hacking about people getting in? And, you know, Facebook is I mean, it, whatever. I mean, it's all fake. Anyway, pretty much, right? It's always putting their best face on. But no, I think I don't know enough about computers. I just kind of naturally paranoid. And I didn't want to try and open myself up to, you know, hacking, you know, whether that means bank accounts, stock accounts. I don't know. And plus, I'm kind of for as outgoing as I can be also, kind of a private person.
Brian Upton:Yeah, I got you. And I think, I think in a lot of ways, you know, me well enough. No, I don't have a ton of jealousy, marry any, but I do find myself jealous of people that we're able to not kind of like give into that. In the social media game, is. It connects me with my children. It connects me in different ways that I might not have had before, especially with distance. But overwhelmingly I think it's been it's been more for society in overall it's been a negative.
Gavin:Well, there is kind of a funny and serious reason why haven't and if I was on Facebook, I would probably be the world's worst stalker. I would stalk all my old college gals that I used to like that ignored me. I would stalk High School. I mean, I one know what everyone was doing. I mean, I not only would I probably go down a rabbit hole and not leave the computer, I would be that person you'd really worry about.
Brian Upton:Yeah, and I think you you have a commonality with a very famous a CIA should have hired me, right. And but you know, it's also down that path, in a lot of ways from his own as Howard Stern talks about that a lot. But he don't he doesn't think he could he's not doesn't have a huge presence on social media. Let's bababooey And those guys handle it. But I think one of his main reasons is that he's obsessed with girls that basically let him go by or that he had dated and he literally says it out loud on his radio show because how they fucking like me now. You know, like he's upset. Yours is different. But I think I get what you're saying were in that world of, especially with, you know, us early on, you know, and still to this day to a certain extent I think you would have been a particular high guy to have maybe a Friday night out, go down to diamond cabaret and not kind of continue that search on Saturday for the see a dancer that was right in front of us or the night before or would have been different.
Gavin:I don't want to sound that creepy. Honest, I want you to sound that yeah, you want me send that query? Honestly, I think would have been more the kind of like Howard, my hero would have been kind of people just out of curiosity, what are they doing? You know, you know, is that hot gal still hot? You know, what? What's her picture look like? Now? You know, 3040 years later? Well, the
Brian Upton:early one before all of this started, really? And I could be wrong on this. I really might be. I think I'm correct, though. I think before Facebook, there was classmates.com classmates.com was a website that you basically saw some advertising it for it. And this was back. I'm sure it predated Facebook's, this was in the 90s. And I think you signed up for it. And if your other classmates signed up for it, it was really just a more of a meeting place to organize reunions. But within that was the beginnings of what you're talking about photos from high school, current photos of people, things like that. And it just really locked into something. And who knows, maybe this was some of the precursor for Facebook, and these ones was people's obsession with where they had been and showing where they were now.
Gavin:Right? Well, I think Facebook was originally kind of a college. What do you call it? A phonebook? Except it was online? Right? Yeah,
Brian Upton:that's exactly it. So yeah, we have that little tendency. But so we got that out of the way. Just take a couple minutes in I know, it's a this is the hardest question to do. But just to the best of your ability, because a little bit of this. And we'll we'll dip in. But the little bit. This is some little tidbits of historical record, you know, so that I know you. I told Stacy was super excited to do this with you. Because I know you I've known you for 34 years. But rarely do we talk in the context of how we'll be talking today. But also, I think it'll be interesting, you know, sort of, we don't talk in the timeline of your life ever. We just there's no, there's no real need to we've taught, I've taught I know you went to Kent, Denver. I know you were an athlete in high school. I know you you went down to TCU, right, SMU SMU sorry, but you went down to SMU. So I know these bits and parts of your life as we talked about it in that moment. But I think in kind of like in a congruent standpoint, we never friends don't talk that way. You know, so just just in a couple minutes, just like Gavin writer, you know, mom, dad, your family, your brother's a little bit and then we'll kind of get a will dip into rose and the kids down the road here too. I think it'll come up in some of these questions. And I think the first parts just like, you know, you
Gavin:know, well, I don't know, I probably get a little tough for me. I don't like talking about myself, to be honest. But
Brian Upton:it's gonna be a lot of dead air. If you don't, I'm not gonna bail you.
Gavin:Well, let's see. You know, I was my family was tended to be I mean, my dad worked pretty darn hard. But back in the day when Denver was only maybe about 200,000 people. You know, my family was fairly prominent in the community. My grandfather, you know, had a hotel right there of i 25. In Colorado Boulevard. It's no longer there. But what hotel that was called writer's Manor. Okay, ma'am. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, you know, my dad got into the commercial real estate business did fairly well, actually, I should say he did very well. And, you know, allowed me to, I went to public school, you know, grade school and then went to a private Junior High in high school, Kent, Denver. My brothers pretty much were in private school the whole time. You know, Grayland. So, I don't know, we were very fortunate, very blessed. You know, didn't really want for too much. My dad though. You know, Big Game Hunter, very athletic. He ended up getting multiple sclerosis. Back in, I want to say 7071 72 there abouts. You know, he'd come back from Africa and one of his big game safaris and we thought it was something maybe cotton Africa, you know, it was hard. It wasn't easily diagnosed back then. But finally it was he had the generative kind of Ms. Yeah, where it continually got worse and it was very painful. Yeah. And you know, he died in 1982 I believe by Yeah, 1980 to December. And I don't know I mean, Luke growing up with with kind of a person in your family. Lots of pain pills. Lots of
Brian Upton:because it's not like you were a child, and you would have been 17 When he died 1617 or 17 Right in there. So it's a lot of I was driving. So yeah, yeah, so a lot of times this happens, and you sort of fabricate fantastical memories, let's say if something like that happens when you're three, four or five, six years old, but um, that that's basically becoming a grown ass man, when you saw the back end of that?
Gavin:Well, and I was the oldest to, you know, let's just say I was 16 at that. Well, 82 Yeah, it would have been 17. Right. So, you know, I had a brother 15 and another brother, who would have been? I think 11. So, you know, he kind of felt like he got some responsibility, but yet, it's still kind of tough. You know, obviously, tough on my mom. But, you know, we kind of kind of muddled our way through it. And, you know, I think I will say this for all those that, you know, now it's very thoughtful forward, you know, get counseling, you know, mental health, that kind of thing. I wish I would have done that back then. I think some of the issues I've had in my life since then, would have been better solved, if I would have gotten some mental health.
Brian Upton:Yeah, because I think we know now as old fuckers that there's a lot of the, you need to have some humility regarding your own mental health and humility regarding all of it. Now, imagine a 17 year old trauma like that, the odds of you going through a healthy, progressive grieving process, were probably almost zero because of the time in the space meaning giving yourself entire space for denial for anger, for it's unlikely at 17, that you were able to go through that
Gavin:well. And you know, I didn't say this, but I think it's kind of germane. You know, part of the reason why I didn't get help was, my dad shot himself in a psychiatrist, office, right? And so I'm kind of like, well, What good's a psychiatrist, you just killed himself in your frickin office? So, you know, I think there was that anger. And you know, that I'll deal with it on my own. But but that anger at the psychiatrists
Brian Upton:if you were due? Now, this is a question I've never asked you before, but it's, it's I'm not going to, you know, some of these ones. I know that I know, boundaries and things like that. But if you were to, when did your dad get back from Africa? ballpark? How old? Were you? ballpark? You were 17 when he died? Let's say let's make up that number.
Gavin:Well, I mean, 70, you know, 7172? He would have been what? Seven?
Brian Upton:Seven? So this went on for six or seven or 10 years? The the the the overall? Okay? Yeah. And again, to the best of your ability. Like the was there a progression in your as a as a child in that household with your dad, you had a perception of him and then as it progressed How did his personality change in? How did your father change like in the house?
Gavin:Well, you know, first off, he was on a lot of opioids, Demerol, Percocet and codeine in Perm and codeine. I mean, we and we were pill runners, myself and my brothers turned out, we were pill once he became more or less bedridden. And, you know, he still getting never wanted to be in a wheelchair would try to get around and what Canadian crutches I think they're called Right. And, but he spent a lot of time in bed. And so, you know, we would be pill runners and, you know, get him a little cinnamon, crispy things that he would eat with when he take his pills. And and he would yell, I mean, yeah, you know, he not only did he physically degenerate a little bit, whether it's the drugs or just the agony, and, you know, I didn't understand it, at the time, too young. And quite frankly, I don't think anyone would understand it, let's say go through it right old as well. But the amount of pain he was in, and, you know, obviously all the drugs he was on to help with that. You know, he I would say dad, you know, try and, you know, enjoy life. I mean, he had tried to kill himself several times before. And then I became very detached. And of course, you know, again, mess with my mind, you know, when I finally forgave him after not talking to him for you know, I don't know, three months, six months, you know, shoots himself a month later. So yeah, they're a little different story there, but The pain he was in I would say, why can't you appreciate the sunset? Why can you appreciate this? And he damn near pulled out a hammer and said, You know what? I'm gonna hit you on the leg. Why don't you look at the sun and tell me how pretty it is.
Brian Upton:And the difference between like, in a weird way, it's it's weird when two appropriate things meet. But I think about to give a context of what's the I think of it like a wine pairing tannins we were talking about today, right, and our wine pairing. And so the tannins are appropriate to the dark chocolate in the tannins are appropriate to the particular wine. And so he appropriately was an agony. Yeah. And he probably would have been nails on a chalkboard having an optimistic 17 or 16 year old tell him like the world's great dad. Yeah, exactly. And so both of those people coming from very appropriate places. But like we found on that pairing, sometimes it doesn't work together in the same conversation. And I think with that kind of pain your dad was going through. It takes a lot to Trump parental kind of nurturing and instincts. But that was the kind of pain and then you have the all the you know, he was in an altered state because of the drugs that yeah, so and the other thing I think that you need to get, we've talked about this a little bit before, on the edge this would have been years ago is that the diet once you're in a family dynamic? So the difference between you and Jason and Adam is what years going backwards?
Gavin:Well, I mean, I'm two years older than my middle brother, and four years or six years older than my youngest brother, but there's
Brian Upton:a there's a responsibility in being the oldest there is. There's another you, there's a little bit of a buffer of well, you know, I felt
Gavin:that. I mean, I thought I felt that I don't think my mom necessarily wanted to burden me with that. And I don't, in fact, I say she didn't want to burden me with that. But I kind of felt a natural response, especially to my youngest brother who I was six years older. I mean, you know, I think he was oh, 910 11 Something like that. When my dad passed, and, you know, he was playing football I so I'd go out and film them. And, you know, we'd review the film, and, you know, he was the stud. Yeah, you know, you know, trying to kind of, of course, I'll do that, you know, gave him my peewee football jacket, he played for the same peewee football team. And, you know, so I really tried to help you know, Jason, you know, my middle brother, he kind of just, you know, became very introverted, and that's fine. But you know, I wasn't, you know, he was one grade above him two years older. So it wasn't like he was going to look up to exactly early. I
Brian Upton:know, he's got the then another one. Let's go back to our now that we're running with it. I kind of liked this. I'll probably use it more now as tannins, Jason brought his own tannins to your tannins. And, you know, I mean, as that I had the same thing with my brother, Todd, we just we don't mix. And there's, it takes a lot longer for you to establish some, it's hard to respect your brother at 16 and 18. Because there's so many dynamics going on you kind of doing some what you would perceive as some parenting fatherly sort of like things. Most brothers are going to completely disregard that at 16. Absolute doesn't have the value in it.
Gavin:Most 1617 year olds disregard their own father. Exactly. We're real fun. So
Brian Upton:yeah, you knew you were coming off the bench. Yeah, you were coming off the bench. I was second string. And so it's and I think, again, for you, I think you're right, you allude to it, and maybe some of these questions will kind of bring it up. But I do think it's, I do think you have ownership of the fact that you know that that was a seismic shift. And that event, probably predicated a lot of who you were going to be the rest of your life. I would agree. Yeah. And I think I was not too far behind it that when I say five, six years, but I wasn't too far from that event when you and I kind of finally bumped into each other. And so I think it was sort of early on that game. And I think you and I went through a period of time in our early 20s, in particular, to different places, but we did the breakers was eventually sort of an extension of college for almost everybody that lived there. Everyone was becoming professionals on the on what they did eight to five every day, but they were still very much in a fraternity and a sorority.
Gavin:Well, when you have an apartment complex where you can put your bar tab on your rent, and your bar tab turns out to be more than your rent. I mean, yeah,
Brian Upton:that that's really bad for the from the financial standpoint of the residence. Really good for a bartender
Gavin:there for a bartender in an apartment complex. Yeah, that
Brian Upton:they didn't it wasn't it was Monopoly money there was there was more than one time that I would serve. I don't No three beers, and it was about 12 bucks. And it would be with Tip 40 There you go. But and so kind of like progressing it forward, they I think he did actually, you know you did overall really good job there to that point then we kind of went over the breakers sort of happens in your mid 20s after school and things like that. And then for time purposes will kind of go to the next big, big chapter in your life, which was you meet the girl?
Gavin:Oh, well, absolutely the love of my life, the angel the you know, as we both tell one another. She saved me. She says I saved her. You know, it was probably a mutual thing. But yeah, and she she's my angel.
Brian Upton:Yeah, not too far behind us. Because we're 30 will be 33. You just said at dinner what what anniversary will be coming up. 25 amazing. So not too far behind. It's just and that's one thing. I do feel like we did not share our childhood. And we did not share High School in college together. But this 34 year run we have shared it with it with that gap between our kids ages and stuff. But now when they get together, what's the difference between 22 and 26? Nothing. They've caught up to each other in the perception. But we did share that part of it. We grew up together at the breakers kind of grew out. And then we both had individually. I'd met Stacy, you met Rosie. And then life just happened. Did the three decades of life overall just happened and included that two beautiful boys.
Gavin:Yeah, twins, which I'll say raising twins. Not necessarily listening to the doctor, like let them cry themselves to sleep. We didn't do that. And they turned out to be an opposite sleeping schedules. First year there was always someone awake in the house. Right. Right. You know, either I was feeding one or she was feeding one. But no. It was you know, raising kids being buried big challenge. I mean, we definitely had our troughs. But we've certainly had our peaks as well.
Brian Upton:Yeah. And it's Trenton Darren. Yep. And I think we've on this podcast talked quite a bit about it comes up. Eventually a lot of the roads, go back to our kids and Stacey and I even at this point with a 30 year old, a 26 year old and a 25 year old. We're always just amazed at we're Brian and Stacy we always say we have this one sort of constant petri dish that is the Upton family. And our kids cannot be any different. Yours gets even a little bit deeper into the micro. You are the writers, you had two kids that are twin boys. And they can't be any more beautiful ly different.
Gavin:Oh, there are it's amazing. 180 degrees, different twins 180 degrees, and it's well they're they're fraternal, they're not identical, right. But even then, you know, they're fairly, pretty different.
Brian Upton:It's remarkable, because I know twins. And and I know, enough twins to know that. There's quite a few that that are very hard to tell apart mannerisms of speaking general personalities, then you look for that one little tip, and then you're like, oh, that's that guy. That's what that's that girl. Then there's the twins that are a little bit different. And then there's the writer boys who are you're sitting in a room, and it's just it's two different boys raised by the same parents in the same environment. And they you wouldn't know that. I guess it's a compliment. Yeah,
Gavin:well, I think the the one area, I think the most important area that there's similar. There good people, we raised good people. And you did you know, I don't care if you're a doctor, I don't care if you're a custodian. I don't care. You know, whatever. I mean, there are plenty of, you know, lawyers, doctors, whatever that, you know, just aren't nice people. Right. And, you know, I just figured if I raised nice, kids are your biggest legacy. I mean, aside from this podcast, finding, I'll have something that will go down in history forever, you know, in the archives, Library of Congress. Yeah. But aside from that kids are your biggest legacy. And I think I am so proud that I raised to good humans,
Brian Upton:there's no doubt and we kind of joke over my even I think it's my own kids that have said that at some point. You know, in states have definitely talked about it. This podcast started as a date challenge, and it's become a regular thing. And it's, it's for us, I think, eventually, let me put it this way. Without talking about Gavin and Brian. I would love it. If there was an audio of my grandpa speaking for 45 minutes or an hour about fucking anything that existed in the world about meaningful things the way he saw the world. There I couldn't even put a number on the value that would have to me. Exactly. And that's exactly I think this Thank you, Brian. This will be an indication it's not it sounds egotist so hard to walk around without sounding like it's about you. But I think of it more like how great would that be if that was there for me, right and this the same guy this on this podcast about honesty that Did I do the very best job of always staying in context, see my grandparents all the time, like I would know none of us do. When we're really honest about work, none of us are the best friends or the best sons or the best husbands or the best grandkids overall. But it really does hit home in waves, sometimes not so much what I didn't do with Pete, that, you know, there's there's times where you just would like to hear his voice or have a touchstone frame of reference for who that person was. And that's kind of what today was, was going to be about, you know, and we'll kind of get that good time goes quick here, that was a good 30 minutes, we just did, I want I think it's important I can I can go with the thing I'm going to say right now, right out of the gate, but it'd be so out of context. But now I feel like, you know, I want to get to May 30, or June 1 of 2021. And so we kind of get the sense of this kid raised in Denver, you know, family, you know, had had like a lot of other people, you had this real kind of like pivot left turn unexpected circumstance, when you're a teenager, kind of still muck through it, go to college, do your thing. And then you you kind of get back into your community, you meet the girl, you you get, you're married for 25 years, and you have two beautiful kids right behind it. And then the world changes just coming up on about two years ago, like right, and like may 30. June 1, I think was around the time and take it away a little bit as far as like what that what the week or the week was leading up to it. And then, you know, the news you got?
Gavin:Well, so I'll just say this, one of the my wife and I have traveled and done a lot of things. One of the best vacations that I didn't want to go on, was actually the previous March of 2021. Right after a lot of stuff had been closed because of COVID. My wife and I had had COVID and this was before the vaccines. Yeah. And she wanted to go to Orlando to Harry Potter World. Yeah. Universal. Yeah, it because she was depressed with with COVID and the locks on and I said, Fine, we'll go. And they pretty much just open everything was just kind of really those Musement parks and stuff were opening. So that March we went turned out to be one of the best vacations we'd had. I didn't necessarily want to go. You know, she's huge Harry Potter fan, but a lot of fun. Well, what made it even more fun was in that end of April, very end of April. found out I had cancer. And when when the Well, I had had some digestive issues. And so I finally ended up getting a CT scan and when the I guess it'd be the PA called me. And she was tearful on the phone. Not something you ever want to hear from a doctor, you know, nurse practitioner, no. And she said, you have cancer. I'm like, Well, my brother had prostate cancer, and he's good. You know? So, like, okay, yeah, running 20 miles. Good. Yeah. Right. So, you know, okay, and we'll, we'll deal with it. problem was I didn't understand the extent after the CT scan. And as it turned out, my wallet had to do a colonoscopy, and they couldn't even do a full one. It was so, you know, cancer riddled or the tumor was so big. I couldn't get through it. couldn't cut it out. Because it was embedded in there. Were afraid they, you know, bursted, I guess, could really go everywhere. Well, of course, it had gone everywhere. It's in my lungs, it's in my liver. You know, both lobes of my lungs, 75% of my liver. And I was given three to six months to live, right. And when they did the genetic testing to see if they can do you know, cancer therapies, they have a lot of great therapies targeted. Turned out I had kind of a guess K RAS wild is what I was hoping for. I guess you can call it 8k RAS maybe. I don't know if you call it negative. I call it K RAS team only. That's not the name of it. Right. But uh, you know, I guess the way the doctor described it, you know, with with COVID They always show that picture with the spikes. Yeah. My cancer was a soap bubble. There were no spikes. And I guess that's what they, you know, if there were had targeted therapies, they need to attach those spikes where there were not spikes to attach to it. Right. So she came back and said, Well, we can try chemo. Not sure it's going to work. It could get kind of ugly. You know, do you Want to try it? Or do you just want to have the best three to six months? You know, to get well said, I'm going to try it. I mean, it might as well I mean, yeah, it turned out great decision. Cuz the chemo worked and the original chemo I think it was called FOLFOX. And I didn't I my body seemed to tolerate it pretty well.
Brian Upton:And let's let's lift this a little bit of a tease for this is where I can do a little bit of teasing a guy with fucking stage four cancer. That's the real number eight. But the reason I think even that by the second question that I had put together over the last couple of months, it kind of gets into that. But I think to give them the scope of what we're looking at with this all new for all of us, you know, when you called and told me, I remember, I was parking my car after work, and you call up and told me before the first numbers came back, you would call me right after that story you just told you told me and it just felt like the world was kind of caving in. And in my world as far as this you're not hearing what you're hearing. You know, that's me sitting in California looking at the ocean, I'm not you. But I do know we got very kind of queued up from Rosie early and often on sort of what we were looking for on those first numbers coming back. And I think it was a ca or ch ca. Ca Ca in the thing that was staggering that week was and I'll never forget it was on my birthday. But we kind of knew what we were what was being run. And we knew that anything over like four or five was basically treatment kind of things. And I think rose called back and couldn't get the words out on the phone. She was crying so hard, but I think it was 480 something
Gavin:one 480 It was it was there was a force. Oh, yeah, it was I want to say is like around 424 25. Something like that. That's 120 What
Brian Upton:the fuck that it's more than four? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was it was it was it was staggering, because I think we kind of you're sitting there Googling, you're trying to find out what is what is. And I think in my mind, I'm thinking like, you know, it sounds like it's everywhere. It sounds terrible. What are we going to hear? We're going to hear eight, are we going to hear 15? Are we gonna hear 12? Now, you know that four is this bad number. And when you call and said for 20, whatever the number was, it was it was devastating. You know, and it was a it was a devastating number. But then, like you said, we weren't privy to the next part, which is that we just got that information. And that's when you're seeing the conversation about you know, go live your life for 90 days happen.
Gavin:Yeah, yeah. And, and we you know, Rose started booking these trips, I call them carrots. And what's funny is I kind of even
Brian Upton:bucket let's I'm gonna jump to questions. Go ahead. No, I'm saying this is perfect. It's, it's a classic question. Some of these ones I've just done some research on. We'll blow through these, some of them will linger on some quick answers. But I think the first one, we'll we'll go to number three. First, it says if you found out the world was ending in a year, or 90 days, how would you spend your time now just keep telling me exactly what you were just talking about as far as what you
Gavin:slept with, with your wife? What's that? Like I told you if the world was ending
Brian Upton:that 3812 edit. So if you found out the world was ending in a year, how would you spend your time and it can include Stacey?
Gavin:Well, you know, luckily, with my family
Brian Upton:right now, I think this is the segue for you to kind of keep going right where you left off, which was like it. This is such a bullshit question for people because we ask these questions on card games with our friends on a Friday night at a brew. Who would you do if you had a year left? You had 90 days left and it turned into more but you you, you 80 days? Yeah, but you're a rare person. This question is happening. You're sitting here, you got this diagnosis nearly two years ago, if you found out that you did find out the world was ending in a year. And then talk about like, what you guys as a couple and particularly rose did?
Gavin:Well, you know, you're not gonna get the answer you want, I don't think but I'm trying to be as truthful as I can. And I'm trying to actually remember back to that diagnosis. I mean, first off, you're kind of numb. So I don't think the scope hit me probably hit my wife worse because she had a friend die of cancer before. So it really affected her me I was kind of like, you know, I'm gonna do chemo and you know, whatever. But the biggest thing that I remembered like 90 days to live or whatever, I guess I just didn't think that way. But what, what what came across the most was living each moment, being in the moment. Noticing just how green the grass was at the time or it was coming in spring. And just
Brian Upton:was that from day one? Or did you like when you first heard it? I know it blurred out a little bit. But once you knew what was happening, it shows chemo When was the first part? I'm going to beat this shit? Or was it immediately start seeing the green grass? Which Which came first? Was it?
Gavin:Well, I was told I couldn't beat it. Okay, I was told out. Even if I'm on chemo, it's palliative care. It's just buying time. Yeah, there's no beating this, right? So that's what I was told. Now, being alive almost, almost two years later. You know, I'm like, Well, shit, maybe I can really get some time out to be like, beating it. But no, so at that moment, it really you know, people talk about life flashing before their eyes. I started having memories of past stuff, you know, being really little, you know, old friends. Yeah. You know, again, the sky is bluer. Grass Is Greener, I can hear almost every bird chirping. I mean, you become really in the moment. And what a gift it is and what a gift from God what a gift to really kind of I don't want to say see God, but see the wonder that he created and, and just how beautiful the Earth is, if you don't even believe in God, right moment, and just notice how beautiful. You know, this planet is beautiful, you know, everything, you know, take that moment be in the moment outside of the hustle and bustle and that that was the first thing in the first three to six months. But you know, going through a lot of chemo treatments like chemo every other week for the last two years, basically every other week.
Brian Upton:How many? What's the number of treatments right now? 3941?
Gavin:Yeah, I'm up in my 40s. I stopped counting.
Brian Upton:I think I had less I clocks was a 30 Nights. It's got to be in the low 40s. Yeah. And so and then that was your take on it the. And then rose did kind of an amazing thing, though. In that those first couple months of I still think it's amazing that faced with a 90 day sort of window. She started booking shit for the next year.
Gavin:Yeah, well, I mean, it started to with, honestly, that summer, I can't remember if it was June or July. We got a lot of people for I don't want to call it a, we'll call it a living wake.
Brian Upton:I remember, I can't believe I'm not gonna say I forgot it. But that was one of the first things so there was an urgency to that. And we kind of put that together well, and
Gavin:I'm like, why wait to have a party when I'm not there. I mean, let's have a party while I'm there. Right and see some old friends. And it turned out. It was awesome.
Brian Upton:It was amazing. It was it was it was I think there was no we weren't trying to dress it up as anything else. Other than that, that this because we were living in that 90 Day moment. At that point. I really felt like
Gavin:someone gave me a cool t shirt as far as like
Brian Upton:that was oh yeah, we made up a little there was that the fuck? Gavin says fuck cancer. So yeah, those those. But that that was a particularly good day, because it was a lot of old friends. Some of us hadn't seen each other in 20 years. But it wasn't a we weren't tiptoeing around it, we really thought. I think a lot of us felt like in particular, some of those people from a logistic standpoint, felt like that was gonna be the last one, you know, and here we are quite a bit later. And so rose basically, I think, just went in there. And she, I think she started scheduling some of these these big, broad bucket list kind of trips.
Gavin:And I guess the biggest one, I remember we were living in Vail at the time waiting for our new apartment to be finished driving down for treatment. You know, staying with my mom for the few days, I was in treatment. And she booked up a big trip. It basically would have been the year after our diagnosis. And then of course, he booked another trip it turned out prior to that which Paris which was a great family trip over Christmas break. But or spring break, I guess but yeah, but that one she booked for a year out and I just kind of laughed at her and I said who are you going to take? I'm like, I'm not gonna make it a year. Like, you know, don't you don't have to lie to me just you know, let me know. Yeah. Now
Brian Upton:kind of feels like you're rubbing it in my face. Yeah, exactly.
Gavin:Yeah, I always wanted to go there. Yeah, and then sure, shit. Sure shit. We went to Tahiti when we started in Hawaii, took a did a cruise around the islands and then took a four day boat ride to the Tahitian islands. It was awesome.
Brian Upton:Yeah. And then in here we are doing the Mexican and Caribbean in December. Where do you go in December for that cruise?
Gavin:Yeah. New Year's cruise. That was the Caribbean.
Brian Upton:And now here we are on the Mexican Riviera yarborough's? Yeah, just it just a The thing I'm stunned with now that I've been on a cruise for the first time in 20 something years again is the I came into this fairly healthy feeling pretty good about myself. But these are tiring. Cruises are, by default from from, they're very relaxing but they're taxing also, you know they can be they can be a little bit taxing and so I think it's even more impressive not not just that you, you know the land Paris trip, ocean Tahiti, ocean Caribbean ocean Mexican Riviera, it's impressive for a dude that's in his 41st treatment of chemo that, you know, and still rocking out the excursions and stuff like that. But this one has been a lot of fun. I think it's this this, this sort of like a lot of people I think, would dream of doing a world tour, and you're actually doing a world tour kind of, and I think it's pretty impressive. So, alright, we're gonna have a little bit of fun. Now we're going to kind of go through these ones. Some of these ones might be the, you know, one offs, if you don't feel like talking about it, just say it and we can move on. But they're there they go from meaningless to meaningful, you know, but some of these ones, I just wanted to, I kind of thought these would be questions that I'd want to hear from you. You know, what, what a first question is just simply what? Is there a book that's had the biggest impact on your life? Do you have a single book that impacted your life at all?
Gavin:I've had a few. And I would, I'd saved them for my kids. I actually have a little must read pile. And there were, I considered five must reads. I think I can't remember the fifth one now. I think I got for The Fountainhead. And Rand. Yep. I think that was very influential.
Brian Upton:How so? For you,
Gavin:for me, you know, I think one of the biggest things I took away was how the media can affect people. You know, there was a newspaper, architectural, what do you call a critic, and he didn't like this architect. And, you know, it's been a while since I read the book. But, you know, my biggest takeaway was how someone in the media and again, this book, I think, was written in the 50s, late 40s, early 50s. And it's so you know, media. And today, I mean, even with so much media, the points even more important, so,
Brian Upton:kind of a little bit different track, but a little Orwellian. As far as what absolutely, yeah, that's amazing. And so
Gavin:And of course, that's the other book, I'd say George Orwell 1984 at that, so
Brian Upton:Fountainhead goes on my list. I've never read it. Yeah, you need to read and I think I think I've enjoyed it. And
Gavin:it's an rants not Atlas Shrugged, which was, that's a tough book to get through. This one's shorter. And I think much more enjoy.
Brian Upton:Was there a Fountainhead revisited, too? Was there a second book? Or is it not that I know? I'm just curious, I don't know why that popped in my head. So then we go on to one I have read, which was 1984. Yeah. Why similar? Similar as far as? or different, different? How did that how did that hit you a different way?
Gavin:Well, I mean, 1984 is more kind of about, I think, control, and kind of, you know, government versus people, that kind of thing. And so, you know, again, most of these books I read either in high school or in college or just after college. And, you know, they all kind of have a similar ban. I think, you know, you got to be really careful about government. There was another book, it can't happen here. I want to say the author, once it's Alex Huxley, but I can't remember if that's right. Or if I'm getting this one of your former teachers that a reference Oh, that's a must read. That's a must read. And it's again today. I think it's very germane. It's about how America turns into Nazi Germany. But it's our own government doing it by how they vote in Congress and whatnot. Right. And so, you know, for people that feel like maybe our country's going down to not only a wrong path, but an extremely wrong path. You know, there there's a book that's kind of germane again, written probably in the 50s. Yeah. And and so then, of course, the other one brave new world in which if you really think about abortion, and when does life begin? You know, that that is so germane with you? No, no, no one has babies as they grow babies, and incubators from the word go exactly. So women it's considered unheard of if you actually carried a kid right? So and of course, there's an answer to the abortion question right there if we ever got that technology to actually grow kids, you know, but then of course, when does life begin that's
Brian Upton:is that and when you say your, I guess the you know, going to the question so those are the four books right now right so brave new world how did that affect you? Like is when you read it cuz I think the thing is like it in those are good. I think we can verdict on Orwell, we covered it on Rand. But as far as brave new world getting just to kind of go past the question we'll move on here is how did it have an impact on you?
Gavin:Well, it's a love story. And but honestly, I think the biggest impact would be kind of you know, I took a medical ethics class in college and everything and I think I read that book in once a high school, but basically that book is to me and I need to reread all these these like I said, I read all these long time ago but to me that that really kind of the it really it's just so germane to the abortion argument. And kind of, you know, When does life begin, you know, what do you consider life i plus it also the caste system, you know, they in Brave New World, you know, again, their kids are in their incubators growing but, but kind of like India with their caste system, they pour more than pneumonia into like the worker bee. Right deal. And then remember that of the other deal. So, you know, it had kind of a, you know, big social context to on, you know, whether, you know, a caste systems and gentry and all that stuff. So,
Brian Upton:good stuff, the mu which one I want to ask you next? This is a fun one, you know, this is one that I think this one, we won't linger on too long, but I think it's one that might be helpful, you know, for to hear and kind of expand on what lie Do you tell yourself the most often?
Gavin:Damn good looking.
Brian Upton:You look in the mirror, and you're like, God damn,
Gavin:look at I'm smoking hot. The hips?
Brian Upton:You know? That's actually pretty good one. So you are going to keep that one short. It's I'm trying to think of, for me, I think the one that I think I've answered this before with Stacy, not on the podcasts, but I think in a game with the kids is it's very kind of irrelevant to this podcast is, I think, if I were to, if there were a running statistical record of it, it's that I have time. And I and I'm the guy that you know, that we in, that gets to the Greengrass that gets to those ones, because I might not be thinking of it as a lie. I'm not necessarily seeing grass sneaking off, fuck, I live forever. What I'm saying is I'm not stopping in that moment. So I'm lying to myself that I'll have time tomorrow to look at it. And, and so I think if I had the biggest lie, you know, that that, you know, kind of dominates the others. It's, and I think a lot of us are doing that in theoretically, it hopefully doesn't take a stage for everything to see some green grass.
Gavin:Yeah, in because well, there is a little bit of truth in what you said. But we'll just this, you know, I would say, tell anyone, really take a moment enjoy life, you know, enjoy life as much as you can. But you know, because you never know you. As my wife says, I get hit by she can get hit by a cement truck tomorrow. This boat could have tipped over last night. Exactly. And it was a little rough.
Brian Upton:There was more than rough. And then we woke up this morning. And there were puke bags on every single staircase, I think got more than a little rough. But
Gavin:But yeah, you don't want to kind of get crazy with that either. You know, don't be irresponsible, and you know, rack up your credit card or, you know, think I need to take a trip that I can't afford. But at the same time. This this is a truism. I think I've kind of known but it's more so true to me now. There is no perfect time to do anything. That's right. I mean, you know, people say I'm waiting for the perfect time to get married, there will be no perfect time, you know, maybe you might want to get your bank account somewhat in order. But, you know, a lot of people, their bank accounts are never an order. So, I mean,
Brian Upton:and I think I think that that's a very specific thing. But I think it's a really good point you made because it makes me think of we use that there's going to be a better time for this on a lot of things. And some of them can actually just be sort of black and white, like financial issues. Like it's not a good time for me to start carving away and saving save for retirement now because we're just really pressed down with bills instead of thinking about what can we do to basically decrease our bills and start doing at the same time we kind of talk ourselves into it's not a good time for me to carve out Yeah,
Gavin:I'm just saying timing, you know, timings everything. But, you know, in certain things, there's just there's no perfect time. And, you know, with life, just enjoy it. But But enjoy the simple things because they're there, they're free, you know, hold your girlfriend's hand, hold your wife's hand. You know, the, the look at the grass, look at the trees, listen to the birds. I mean, that's what I that's what I've taken away. That's the gift and I said, Yep, that's the gift I was given with my diagnosis. Yeah.
Brian Upton:And I and I've seen it. And I think you've been a more thoughtful person. Not that you weren't before. But we do. We've always, we've always tended to eventually find our ways one of every five conversations to something deeper in our history of our life. But I think there's not that they become five, five deep and meaningful, but we, we do, I think, lean towards a little bit more curation of our conversations. Now, knowing there's a, there's, like, we started the podcast, there's a particular elephant in the room. That is the that's just being honest, there is a there is a ticking time clock on our relationship. And it's, it's, it took me it took me as a person, I'm still processing, I'm not in denial about it. But it's just a daily sense of processing. Like, it's something there's times where it seems very real in science, where it doesn't seem possible that this could this, this part could end
Gavin:well. But here's the fun thing about that, again, three to six months, I was given, we're coming up on two years. I think that's proof right there. You never know. Now my, you know, my expiration date. As far as I'm concerned, it's been extended, you know, I'm kind of here at God's pleasure, whatever. But, you know, here, it was so dire, I had doctors crying, you know, social workers coming in. And it was, I'm like, what, you know, kind of weird, but, you know, but now it's kind of the opposite end. It's like, I hopefully I can keep going and going and going until I can't. But but that's just it, you know, then you have people where your dad goes to work one day gets hit by a cement truck and doesn't come home. Exactly. So you just don't know site, please, you know, enjoy your family, enjoy your friends. Enjoy nature, you know, that's those are the probably the three big ones that are right there that are easy.
Brian Upton:And that that's that's on the let's go on this next questions. Pretty good segue because I think we just covered sort of the heavy the some meaningful things that what you can do to make yourself happy on a daily basis what other people can do to possibly extend it, but on a on a simple question is over your life. In particular, your adult life, I guess this would be meaningful is what do you do on a daily basis that that makes you feel good now this part is one that's a little bit more getting to know you a little bit and, you know, for me, it's that might be something like a first cup of coffee in the morning and like yo, Ali, these different daily habits, not necessarily what we're doing. But those little things is like, like that was that was great again, and it's the 1000s 10 1000s time you've done something that gives you like a real sense of just like joy, masturbation, masturbation. Is that every day?
Gavin:Well, you kind of set it I mean, you know, every day, what do you enjoy?
Brian Upton:I mean, so you're saying that I only met I don't mean what enough over your over your adult life, I'm really see your adult life would be basically I'm going to do easy numbers. 33. I'm coming up with 10,500 times you've masturbate in your adult life. And that doesn't count. That's that's your adult life. From 14 to 18. It was 27,000 times. Yeah. And so well, I guess we're gonna I really thought it was going to be a little bit more, but I think there's gonna be a lot of people that are probably going to agree with you on that one. I don't know if they can meet the reps. I don't know. If there's anybody on the planet that's going to be able to meet the reps of daily but you know what, it's right now officially, officially. I think we can say that we are doing your I know you're trying to fight to get into a case study. But I think I'm feeling I'm ready to present that on a 90 day stage for cancer diagnosis. Daily masturbation can extend your life 9010 times. Yeah. There you go. There you go. Here's an interesting one. This is more. This is one a little bit more. Let's go to brave new world. Now on this question. If there were a way to download all of your memories to a searchable spreadsheet, would you do it?
Gavin:That's That's what made you think of that question.
Brian Upton:All of your memories. I'm fascinated by artificial intelligence and simulations and the eventually singularity merging with our technology that if that was there, theoretically, there's a future time where I'm talking all of your memories, even like that fucking joke about masturbation in our little stories on a Friday night. Let's say it's all in there. You and I are connected because we have this massive Rolodex of frames of references, common history friends, and so they don't always all tie in, but it makes some shit really funny because we have all of this history. And so when you're gone, theoretically, what I'll have is these, these myths moments, but I won't have my partner in crime to remember some of the missing moments, you know. And so that would be the reason I asked this question. So I'm obsessed with it. And I'm not I'm not even fully sure. I myself would do this. But I'm obsessed with the concept of your consciousness being uploaded?
Gavin:Well, I think it goes back to legacy. I mean, I'd love to leave a legacy and kind of what you said, you know, kids, grandkids, great grandkids. That would be cool. And that might be cool. But I'm not sure I'd want to leave everything. I mean, there's some things I don't want my wife to know about much less, especially with progeny, especially with a quick search. Exactly. Yeah. So you know, I mean, we all have our little secrets. And I would advise everyone to keep those little secrets. But no, you know what, I'm pretty honest and open. But I mean, there's some stuff even you know, that my wife would be fine with that. Not sure my kids would be fine with so, you know, if there was something that, you know, in all seriousness, they can type in and upload, you know, if it's everything, I'd probably say no. The other thing I would say no to kind of that kind of leans into what you're asking, that's why I asked you, you know, would you download your consciousness into a computer and kind of live consciously, digitally? And I would say, No, a lot of people. Let's put it this way. I don't want to live forever. If someone said, If you could you if you could live forever, would you? I'd say no. I think at some point, maybe I'd live longer. Maybe I'd like to live longer. But at some point, I think we need to leave this earth or this realm or, and move on, you know, but yeah, I'm one of those people that I in this before cancer. Yeah, no, I wouldn't want to live forever. And I wouldn't want I certainly don't, I certainly don't want everything downloaded. I'd like to keep a few secrets. I think I mean, fact I don't do social media, I think kind of says that as well.
Brian Upton:And I think the there's a saying there sayings exist, and they exist for very particular reasons. But sometimes they can be used in other ones. It's that Be careful what you asked for. And sometimes the, in this particular instance, be careful you ask for is if it was as this question presented, everything, everything. There could be potentially, sometimes were elevated in memory. And I think in a potential world where you have every single thought available search, it could be great point greatly diminished rate
Gavin:point. I mean, you know, even though my dad, you know, We butted heads the oldest, you know, not everything was copacetic. But now, you know, 30, you know, almost by his 40 Almost years later, I most all my memories are very fond memories. You know, I'd hate to have to go back. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that shitty day, or Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. And so
Brian Upton:I know exactly what I don't want. I don't want to have like, be married Stacy for 62 years, then pull up her memories from like, June 17 1996. and have her memory say, you fucking loser Brian. Exactly. Right. Yeah, it's so and he would say, but what I'm saying is like, there's moments that are a transitional. And I think also some fleeting moments that that you might be you might be turning me on this a little bit, as far as I think like I knew what answer you want. And my first thought always is the one is like, I don't care put it out there. But I think the other one would be this one. I guess this one. I'm really good at this stage. But it's a real elite to deal with you. If you could second if you could have a second chance at one event in your life. What would you choose?
Gavin:Oh my god. A second chance edit event? I honestly,
Brian Upton:I have one and I don't think it breaks the time space continuum because that's the that's the fear right? The fear is redoing an event changes the kind of like
Gavin:the I think you were talking more about regrets. I
Brian Upton:mean, I think so if you if you could have a second chance at one event in your life, what would you choose?
Gavin:I'm kind of the I want to answer this question. I'm just drawing a blank of course I'm sure there'd be a number of things.
Brian Upton:I think you told me and this is the one I'm making a few the you told me that you laid over your gut issues for a long time and went by a lot of opportunities for screening that I think casually say seven years ago if on that like we all get when we're 5049 I think you this gets this gets not emotional for me anymore, but it does change. It's like it the list is too far gone. Now the amount of people that I've got to do screenings because of your diagnosis.
Gavin:I think we I know my wife, I think we've had 16 or 17 People that have found polyps, so that have gone and gotten, including this guy exams because of me. So, you know, again, praise the Lord. But here's the question. You know, because you say, yeah, that's, that's the one that's easy one, I go change that go back in time. So that means 16 People die. Because they don't get an exam.
Brian Upton:But he just, that's a mindfuck. Right? I mean, in your my circumstance, it would be. My first thought is like, I don't know those people. So I'll just take you on the Mexican Riviera, we wouldn't be here either, you know, because we will be doing different things. We wouldn't be here right now. But I think that's a very interesting take on it, you know, like, and I think it's something that you've said already over the last couple years that you you, you carry a tremendous amount of weight when I let you know that I've had a conversation with sometimes a stranger. It works its way into a conversation that I'm not carrying a banner for. But it naturally works its way in even to a new friend, old friends. It kind of comes across
Gavin:well, well, in again to that's the gift. Again, people. I feel like I've been blessed with cancer. I feel like my two years have been blessed are almost two years. And I'm not sure why. And I keep telling Lord, let me get a you're keeping me here longer and I'm supposed to be what am I supposed to be doing? Maybe I'm doing it? Maybe I've done it. Maybe I've saved some of those people or go on and cure cancer or do something.
Brian Upton:Yeah, because you can't know. So let's say this this only because my little group you know, everybody's got their little rose obviously, as friends families that this is expand who knows how many tests in there because of this event. And it? It does. It does make it feel instead of the vast wasteland of waiting to die. It does make you feel like here. We already talked about what your life was who you were as a kid all of these things, but it is meaningful. It's meaningful that you your diagnosis in that little story. It does give you a little bit of a tangible reason why I was here.
Gavin:Hey, I had a lot of fun in my life. I've done pretty much almost everything anyone could want to do this putting it lightly. Yeah, this is the most meaningful stuff I've probably done. And it's kind of cool.
Brian Upton:It is it's a it's a in United Sports kind of junkies about it but it's sort of this it's sort of this no timeouts left kind of last minute drive for the score thing we don't feel like you've in the last the score here is being able to find meaning within these last week turned out to be 90 days coming up on two years now is instead of just doing the treatment traveling to these amazing places. You kind of have found the as you using your word of blessing within it, which is that's not easy to do.
Gavin:Oh, I've been blessed so many times over in these last you know what, 18 months so far.
Brian Upton:I will take two questions are going to kind of bring it down a little bit easier. Against this one. I some of these ones I picked up never fucking I don't know. Okay, it's like if you could be I'll try and answer you could be any animal what animal would you choose to be? It's not the kind of question two dudes asked each other when we're, we don't break down the game on Sunday. Gavin Hey, before you go, what? What animal would you like to be? So what is it some free
Gavin:and soft? No, actually, I think I know that eagle. Why? I always like flying. I always wanted to be a fighter pilot. I did get my pilot's license but you know, I'd say almost any bird you know Seagull, even pelicans. I love the way they kind of coast along the arrogant Falcon fabulous bird. Yeah, I mean fun. But you know eagles are majestic. They're big. They're the most badass bird out there. I mean, if I want to be a bird, I want to be the most badass bird.
Brian Upton:If Gavin Reiter now forget the the fantasy nature of this question, if you could have your name associated with any piece of art in the history of the world painting music, what would you choose? Now remember, this isn't you taking it from somebody else? This would be part of this would just be a fun fundamental part of like, oh yeah, by the way, he went to Kent Denver. He was a manage his money really well. And he's a proud father and he also painted the Mona Lisa.
Gavin:So you're asking me if I painted something anything music created muse? Like take credit for someone that
Brian Upton:take credit. It just would be yours. You got to break the seal on a little bit like it did. Basically, we'll find out what's your favorite piece of art in the history of the world and what like if you could basically have your name on a piece of art, what would it be?
Gavin:Wow. So you got to narrow these down.
Brian Upton:Because that, you know, too broad like mine would be Yeah, mine would be.
Gavin:I mean, I'm thinking all sorts of things. I'm
Brian Upton:not even religious anymore. But I think I'd really like to be the the Brian Upton, I went to school played some football, ran a toy business on the credit card, you know, purchasing agency, commercial landscape maintenance management, I own a magazine. Oh, and there was at one time in the middle like the I made the Sistine Chapel. That's the center. That would be and again, not taking credit was just like, there was something I did between like 1998 and 2004. I built this assisting,
Gavin:I was gonna say by yourself, but it's still being built right doesn't matter, just as right in the door, you know, put your stamp your name on something that says Gavin Reiter, and you're not taking
Brian Upton:anything for anybody. That's the fun part of the questions.
Gavin:Wow, I don't know. I mean, I'd have to think about that. I'm sure there's a right answer and a perfect answer.
Brian Upton:We'll come back to it. But let's do a little I'll let it percolate for him. Yeah, that's fine. And because this one might I'm gonna blow through this when he said I thought this one would hit a little bit more, kind of gets into the Trenton Darren one because they're still young. And there's also this is that one of those questions, I think I have a sense of where you'll go, but maybe not if you could tell your younger Gavin self something. What that that would that would land? What would you tell your younger self?
Gavin:Oh, you know, and I've told my son's is be happy. You know, I have a son, you know, he wants to be a billionaire. Well, hey, that's awesome. I think everyone wants to be a billionaire. Now. Are you willing to put in the work? Sometimes it's timing, sometimes it's the idea. You know, but even if you are a billionaire, doesn't mean you're gonna be happy. You know, I had a brother who had a lot of money. He wasn't happy, right? So you know that that's why I tell my, my kids, be a good person, be happy. That's all I asked for. That's my legacy kind of talked about that earlier. That's what I would tell anyone, you know, but you got to sustain yourself. But, you know, I've known some people that, you know, they make just enough to eat just enough to, you know, have their place. They live on a surfboard. Right? They're some of the happiest people on the planet.
Brian Upton:And I know you and I talked about this, I probably drilled it in this this special episode. So it's a little different. But there's, there's the the sun people of Southern Africa, you and I might have just talked about this are the original kind of human culture from like 48 52,000 years ago. And one of their there still exists today, just only hundreds left. But they're they've carried the story of their culture forward. And one of the fundamentals that they believe in is that there's a lot of Aboriginal kind of thought is that there's two paths to prosperity. And one of them is the accumulation, we can say well, but accumulation of things, let's call it and the other one is simply wanting less. And they both get to the same place. And they're not exclusive of each other. It what I'm saying is like it that one, you can't just choose one path or the other. But semblances of those two paths can get you to that same place of being happy. And I think I'm reading a little bit at NTU is like, you can choose the billionaire path, let's say, but if you think that's gonna give you contentment, it's not a guarantee, I'm not saying it can't happen. It's not a guarantee, you can choose just not playing the man's game. It's not guaranteed, you'll be happy not playing the game. But there's, there's a there's chances in both of those ones that sometimes it might be, you know, finding, I think, for both of those to end up in that one space, you kind of need to find yourself.
Gavin:Well, you just reminded me some happiness isn't a thing, you know, it has no. I mean, you can be miserable if you can't get, you know, health care or health or whatever. But really, happiness is a state of mind. You either choose to be happy, or you don't. And yeah, there are a lot of obstacles in all our lives. I've been blessed. I don't have as many as I'm sure a lot of people do. But I've also seen many people that have so much more money than I do. And they're miserable, right? And so that has nothing to do with it. And I've seen people that are dirt poor, that are happy because they choose to be
Brian Upton:this was a long time ago. But I remember this is a loose kind of story. And I don't think it throws anybody necessarily under the bus because it was so transitional, but I won't give it a timeframe but it meant a lot to me when you said it. We were at a birthday party for you and you and I were staying The Kitchen having a drink. And it was a lot of people there was just a regular party poker games going on. And you said to me, he's like He is you said to me Go brand new, you and Stacy are happy. And you said, look at these people here right now a lot of these people build you know that they have more money than they know what to do with. Some of them are they don't get their paycheck the next week, they don't even exist on the planet. He says, but some of those people aren't happy out there. And he's in you just based said you and Stacey are happy. I think you must have seen this in a corner. And we were just having fun and just like be in those woods. And it's not a perfect science. But I think you've been on that train for a while. So I'm saying you're on record of kind of that's not a philosophy you had with a cancer diagnosis. No. And so that's, I'm just giving you credit, saying that was 20 years ago, you know, whatever, or whatever, however long it was ago, you know,
Gavin:I mean, I'm not sure it was that long ago, but you don't I think cancers only kind of solidified it. But yeah, I think it's I'll give credit to my wife to be honest, I think because we had our ups and downs. And went through some marriage counseling and realized we're wasting our money. And even though I say go get counseling, but I think that's more for mental health. I am not sure marriage counseling works. What works for my wife and I's we threw the divorce card out and said we're gonna make it work. We're gonna choose to be, you know, happy and work at it together and be together but yeah, so. But she she kind of said, you know, or told me like, you know, Yabba either choose to be happy or don't yeah, that's stuck with me.
Brian Upton:Yeah. And you guys have the that thing you have that one particular thing that I think, again, now coming up on, I guess it's 1819 months into this whole thing. But that 10pm on Tuesday night, we're in a salsa bar in your dance with Rose, I got a good picture of it. You guys looking at each other? You'd seen each other for the first time?
Gavin:Oh, yeah. And that was that that's a perfect that that was a great night.
Brian Upton:It's a great night. And it's a great image. And it's a great, it was fun to watch you, you know, kind of out there and not that, you know, because a lot of times you do these things and you're doing it because it's kind of manufactured and you're like this is this would be a spontaneous thing to do. There was no one else was in the room when you guys were dancing. For as far as the way you were looking each other. There was like there was no one else were in that room at that point. That was That sounds like the cheesiest fucking thing I've ever seen. I think I just said dance like no one's watching. Yeah, I think that's a cheesy, but that's kind of what it felt like. And I think both of these kinds of Lando, we
Gavin:were we were definitely into ourselves, we really weren't. I mean, I wasn't aware of it. It was
Brian Upton:amazing to watch that, you know that that's deep into what is a life altering kind of diagnosis. And but I've seen that for 20 something years now that's been that's been a constant. This one, I think is a fun question. We're getting into broader section. Now some broader set. I'm not asking all these questions, but some of these ones are broader ones. But I love this. You and I do have conversations like this sometimes, which is the question is simply what do you think this world is going to look like, in 200 years?
Gavin:Oh, wow. You know, what, I, I would pray that we're all here as a species in 200 years, to be honest. I think my fear has always been growing up. So I remember growing up, duck and cover, you know, my biggest fears, we still destroy ourselves with nuclear weapons. You know, everyone's worried about global warming, and, you know, whatever else. But I think that's our greatest should be our greatest fear as a species. I mean, what one thing about the global warming argument that I'm sure the world will look different in 200 years in regard to that, I'm sure the water levels probably will be higher. But humans adapt, we adapt really well, as far as controlling our surroundings. You know, we're physically we don't adapt. But, you know, we have the ability to make our surroundings. I mean, we have people in Antarctica, you know, studying for crying out. Right. So, you know, will will Florida be the place to be? Will California be the place to be? Maybe not, you know, certainly not New Orleans? Sure. But, you know, 200 years global warming will still be able to adapt to that. Nuclear? No, they launched us, it's over. And so, I don't know, I think I just hope we're here in
Brian Upton:Texas variants. And I think the thing though, is kind of like mind fucks me as I sometimes is, this question runs, you run across this, at least in your own mind, kind of future forecasting, but the one sometimes that plays with my mind a little bit as I go the other way with it. What are the world look like in 1823? And we're in 2023 right now. So ask that question. If you were to ask them in 1823, but imagine exactly and And I think that's the my answer is like, mostly, which I think you had a very kind of intuitive answer there. Because for us to start talking about, you know, transportation, what what it looks like, is folly. I think the real The answer is, there's no way for us to know, 200 years, but I think the pertinent question is, will we be here? And that's a good one. There's another one. It's a bigger one. But I think it's, I think I know the answer to this with you. But it's, do you think, is humanity inherently good or evil?
Gavin:We're both. We're both. I mean, that, to me, that's obvious. I'd like to say we're inherently good, because I do believe everyone can be inherently good, unless there's maybe a real mental deficiency there. But truth be told, we're both. And that's the struggle, we obviously need to good to be better, we need to be better. And I think we've gotten better. I mean, you look at you know, slavery still exist, but not like it used to, you know, around the world. Exactly. I mean, you can call it a mistake, but we did give women rights. You know, we let them drive you. Know, I mean, we're moving forward. Yeah, that was fast enough for for people, not necessarily stuff that necessarily move fast. But we are moving forward for maybe even a step backward now. And then. And, you know, we say we, I mean, I'm obviously very US centric, right, maybe Euro centric. I mean, there's still a lot of places that not only don't ever technology, but don't have our values, right. And, you know, some people would say, Well, you know, that's their cultural values, they should have that. Well. I mean, great if it's slavery or subjugating women, I guess that's culturally appropriate for them, but not for us. So I don't know. And but anyway, we are moving forward. So you know, what was the question?
Brian Upton:I don't even remember now. The Bible leads into the next question, which is, I don't think that another question I don't think I've ever asked you. I think we talked around it. Do you believe in aliens? Yes. Now this is my question actually looked up that that was good. We have a preconceived notion of what that would be. But the simple question is, what if aliens invade? And they're really hot?
Gavin:Would I have sex with an alien? Absolutely. If she's hot?
Brian Upton:No question. That's because wouldn't the oh, I
Gavin:don't know. I don't know. I better
Brian Upton:get I think it'd because here's my point with that question. The reason I asked that question is because I think we really overwhelmingly have our guards up about aliens, like so we have an idea that they want to probe our assholes and they want to get information. They want to abduct us and take our organs out and study them, right. But like everything else in the world, well, they wouldn't be they wouldn't that door open. And they were just super hot. And I'm talking men I'm talking for, but not just from a guy's perspective all the way across the board just walked out, there was nothing but a line of Versace models. Would that change our perception of of wood? We drop a lot of our guard.
Gavin:I'm not sure how serious you want me to be.
Brian Upton:I was very serious about I love this subject.
Gavin:I'm not sure what drug you just took, you know, in the last two minutes, but it
Brian Upton:came out with a great question. Yeah.
Gavin:Well, by the way, when people say, you know, alien sight, I have a slightly different it doesn't matter to answer your question. It's gonna be the same but just so people can think about this too. I'm not sure they're necessarily from another planet could be from another dimension. So you know, he can you know, people say oh, just planetary travel, of course now wormholes and all that it's become even in physics more acceptable. But you know, if you're a different dimension, jumping dimensions could be a lot easier than even traveling across, you know, space. And I think again, and maybe they're also just our eyesight, you know, they could be amongst us now and but you know, that we can see him and then we can write, you know,
Brian Upton:and I do think there's more practical sort of like evidence happening right now about in particular, sort of like a simultaneous alternate realities that that very well could exist especially the more and more we learn about these black holes and things like that,
Gavin:but are we open to them? You know, that's the crazy thing I think the scientific thought is if they're really aliens and are really from a different planet different you know, solar system get, you know, Galaxy, whatever, that they must be. Oh, god, what's the fancy word for it? not omnipotent, but you're friendly, right? Whatever, there's another word for it, it just escapes me at the moment, but they must be friendly because they're so advanced, they haven't destroyed themselves, or they've gotten past that. So they wouldn't hurt another culture. You know, obviously, they wouldn't because we're, you know, we're sentient, you know, we're a vessel, you know, quite frankly, I kind of wonder sometimes if we're not just a giant zoo, you know, you know, big, big blue marble, you know, with all these different species and everything. Maybe we're just a zoo,
Brian Upton:you're gonna have to live like at least 13 days long as we need to do another one of these and that that might be the topic right there. I think Well, we I think my dream is to like do one of these in Denver and get your other podcast dream partner on there, Trent. I think that would be get some microphone and headphones on Trent.
Gavin:Well, you wouldn't need me. I mean, hell, it'd be a big battle between which one he talked the most.
Brian Upton:So watch. I'm doing pretty good here. Yeah, well, yeah, that's overall because of the circumstance. If you ever have you ever seen a ghost Gavin? Or what you did you have any interaction that way?
Gavin:Not a ghost. Keep going. I've seen an angel
Brian Upton:was tell the story.
Gavin:Well, two stories. When I was really drunk, one I was stone cold sober. So I've seen twice. Both involved water want to shower when a hot tub? Water is very, for people that kind of look at that. Water can be very powerful. Both experiences were extremely enlightening, and quite frankly, both kind of scary. But that's one reason why. My faith, it opened up my faith a lot. Yeah, me a lot of reason to be very faithful in one instance. And this would have been the sober time in the hot tub. It's like the whole universe just made sense. It was weird. It was kind of like, you know, if you were to ask me a physics question, I could have answered it. Course that lasted about 1020 seconds. But
Brian Upton:But at that moment, you had it? Yeah. It was weird. Interesting. And I think that's interesting that, that, that it's sort of an independent disconnect. And I think you and I've talked about this, I think touch a little bit on like, your sort of your, as much as you do or don't want to, I think it's interesting, you know, as far as, like, sort of your journey of like faith,
Gavin:by the way, just for all you listening. I don't you all are pretty much the only people I've ever said this to so you know, I don't talk about that very much.
Brian Upton:I know that what that now all of Venezuela knows it.
Gavin:Yo arriba.
Brian Upton:But do you do I mean, as far as I can, this is, again, a little bit of the end, I think you can choose to go whatever path you want here. But I think some of this is that kind of particular historical record. Where what has been your sort of faith journey, you know, for like, did you have it? Did you lose it? Did you get it back? Have you drifted away? Or where do you land
Gavin:now? It's been up and down. I mean, I remember mom taking us to church, you know, young age, Episcopalian Church. I remember. Not liking it, not understanding it. And I prefer to watch football on Sundays. Yeah. So it my Dad, thank God so we kind of fell out of going to church. Yeah. Although my dad was even, you know, especially when he was sick, you know, religious? I don't know. So, you know, I always for a time, I thought it was kind of a psychological reason for people dealing with death, you know, facing your own mortality. It's nice to think that maybe we would go on so, you know, for a time I was kind of like, it's just a comfort thing. psychological thing, right. But certainly, after those two experiences that changed my mind. Yeah. And then after my cancer died, well, first off then, so yeah, so So those two experience changed my mind. And those were probably back in. See, we're in that house. So that would have been round 2000 tween 2007 and 2013. Yeah, trying to remember when he moved into our house. So anyway, it was back when I was at the breakers in the house. Yeah. So So since then, I have been very spiritual. And then I gotta be honest, went to the Vatican in 2013 on a trip, got my piece cross at the Vatican. Yeah, once I got my cancer diagnosis, put it on, and I've been much more even spiritual. Since my diagnosis, which I think is normal. There's an old philosophical I can't remember was Hume or I forget the other philosopher, but there was a philosopher, I took a class in college, you know, also slept at a Holiday Inn. But it's very true. Everyone believes in God, when they're hanging by their fingernails, you know, off a Cliff's edge. You know, you look up and you pray, please save me Jesus, you know, yeah, please save me. I'll do whatever. So, but, you know, I'd like to think my spiritual spirit. I'm not gonna spirituality. Thank you, is a little deeper than that. Well, more meaningful. I had it in the past, but my diagnosis has made it stronger.
Brian Upton:Gotcha. Do you feel like overall? And then we'll wrap down to a few more questions. So you and I can both take a nap before? I'm right there with you. But I need a cocktail. That's a cocktail than a nap. Have you been thinking about lately? Like, with a with a, like, a lot of us don't get a kind of a finite timeline. In some circumstance? have you accomplished what you want to accomplish? Have you kind of given yourself time to think about that? Or do you let yourself go down? Is that not a healthy place to go?
Gavin:No, I feel like I could have done more should have done more. To be honest. If I really think about that. I guess that's a regret. You know, no one wants to die with regrets I guess most people do. That's a regret of mine. I think given given all that I was gifted with or blessed with? I think I could Well, I think I could have done more. I think I should have done more. And I gotta be honest, I hope the good Lord. You know, I feel like apologizing when I get up there. It's like, I'm sorry. And so, you know, again, I hope something like this, maybe even just to kind word to someone. Yeah, I hope it's enough.
Brian Upton:I think it is. And I think we'll I almost guarantee we'll do another one of these because it's pretty easy quality's about the same over Funsters. There's a there's, there's gonna be more things I want to ask. But the other one I kind of had lingering, and maybe we'll talk into that right now is. And I think another one that I sort of know possibly the answer, but it might be helpful, not only to your own kids to other people that might be listening is what was your worst habit? Is your worst habit? And why couldn't you kick it?
Gavin:Well, because I'm sorry, picking your nose is the easiest way to clean it. You know, I know there's this novasure. And every time I hear it, it's like, how do you clean your nose? What with my finger? Right? Exactly. You know, so no, I don't know. You know, that's definitely one. Smoking now and then I don't know. I mean, yeah. I honestly, I don't know where you're going with it. If those are too bad habits,
Brian Upton:smoking would be I guess let's just stay on smoking. You know, Smokings. fair one. And I think I think it gets to the fundamentals of the bigger question scalable would be, why weren't you able to kick it?
Gavin:Well, I could, I mean, to be honest, I call myself a social smoker. I mean, I never was more than Well, alright, this actually good. I never was more than a pack a day. But I went, you know, to have the kids we went two or three years without smoking frozen. i When we met, we were both kind of smoking at that time. But not a lot. I mean, there are people that go through three packs a day four packs, and it's never like that. But you know, it's not healthy. It doesn't smell good. But yeah, to have the kids because we did, you know, artificial insemination Yeah, to quit for time before we started. And, you know, we're expected to not smoke the whole time. And we didn't, I kind of took it up again. It to me, it was always a more social thing. Right. But, you know, it's, it's ironic now that I have lung cancer, I feel very emboldened to just light up whenever I want, because I already got cancer, but I'm sure that people will say, well, don't you want to live longer? Well, I've already done that, too. But, you know, I don't think that in my mind, that doesn't make any difference, right, you know, having one or two now. I also look at because I have lung cancer. At some point, my body's just gonna say, you know, don't do it. And that'll be fine. Right? Liver cancer will probably say don't have a beer either, you know, so
Brian Upton:and that you'll it'll be apparent when that time comes.
Gavin:Yeah, and it kind of is Uh, you know, I kind of just listen to my body so right
Brian Upton:I don't know if you and I have ever even really talked much about this maybe do you have any like particular people that stand out in your life as like mentors to you like that you kind of look back on it and is there anybody that stands out to you that's that's worth noting or that comes to mind.
Gavin:There really should be anyone that
Brian Upton:maybe it's kind of like, like poke a little bit like anybody, like in the financial world or anything like that, that you kind of look back and say, or a teacher, maybe in college? Well,
Gavin:there's there's one person I it's an easy fallback. And I'm sure there are others and I apologize, but there's definitely one his doc him. And there's two reasons. He was our high school. I can't high school English teacher. And, you know, he had his doctorate he either had love I think he was was from Harvard. And I think is what he call it. Teacher, you know, they shared an office, I think he was Yale, and they would butt heads. But Mr. Meade, but anyway, you know, friendly, right? But he, I went out of his classes right after my dad killed himself and walked out of class, just that one of those days, one of those moments. Kent had a nice little lake and I sat down to Lake after class ended, he came out and sat down with me and, you know, said, Well, how are you? And I said, Well, I'm not good. And, you know, he said, Well, what's up? And, you know, I said, you know, I just, I'm having a hard time dealing with what happened with my dad. Yeah. And I said, I, and he goes, hold, tell me about it. And I said, Well, I'm, I'm having a hard time with how selfish she was, you know, killing himself. Yeah. Even, you know, me and my two brothers. And my mom, I just thought that was selfish. And he goes, Well, you know, he was in pain, right? They go, yeah. You said it's been, what? 10 years? And they go, yeah, he kind of looked at me said, Well, who's the selfish one here? That stung. I looked at him like, wait a minute, I'm the one suffering you're the one talking to me. You're supposed to be making me feel better. And you're calling me selfish. Like, who are you? What are you doing? Right. And? And, but he was right. That's what stung the most. Yeah. You know, he said, You know, I know you love him. But he said, that's why you're being selfish because you love him. Interesting. But he said, you know, because you love him. You also should be willing to understand that and let that anger go. Wow. And so here's what's funny, real quick. And his story. He as it turns out, he was married with kids. Yeah. And he basically said, you got to do what's right for you. Do not for others, you know, do what's right for you, not for don't do for others. Turned out, went to college two years later found out he divorced his wife to be with his gay lover. So he finally took his own advice he
Brian Upton:did finally listen to itself. Yeah, physician heal thyself. Yeah.
Gavin:So I thought that was awesome. Actually looking back on it. This one
Brian Upton:I like to this is, again, like, these, these are difficult, but I think don't don't make them more difficult than they need to be. And this one even has a little bit of a The question is like, what's your sort of elevator pitch but your cosmic elevator pitch meeting? And what I mean, that is like, not your job description, professional self. About page and just, it just kind of the question is like, who are you? Like, who, you know, like, as you as like you, like, you know, if you're sitting like, who? How do you see yourself and who are in and, you know, for us, you know, in this context would be like, who was I? You know, eventually when you have that one? Do you have a sense that do you feel like, that's a question you can kind of think about a little bit?
Gavin:Well, I mean, I've kind of thought about it. Yeah, it's kind of like, if I understand what you're asking, it's kind of like, what do you want on your gravestone? How do you want people to remember differently?
Brian Upton:Same questions, right? And I don't want to say write your own habitat, you know, but it's something along those same kind of questions. Like, people are gonna say that about you. You know, they're, they're gonna, they're gonna I'm sure they're gonna be something said about me. Right. But the like, might when my dad died last year. And you know, there was my brother did a beautiful job he wrote about him. He was, he was in the Navy. He was a cop. He was a coach. He was a teacher. He was a loving father. That's not somebody those are those are those are there's there's a lot underneath each of those but I think it I'm not saying
Gavin:she was funny is I kind of wish I had some of that, because I feel like I've kind of, you know, I did stock trading for 30 plus years. Right, but what is that, but I feel like I wish I had something like your dad had your comp, you know, helping people, you know, being a public servant, you know, doing something meaningful? I'm not that's one of my regrets. I'm not sure I did anything meaningful. So when you ask, I guess I have to, but at the same time, your question I kind of like because you're focusing on the person. Exactly. So there, I think I excel. I mean, let's be, you know, I excel know
Brian Upton:that. But, but that's true. Because before you finish that sense, I'd say there's a lot of people immediately get to line and disagree with you about it. Your kids, your friend, Brian, you know, that whole different perception of of you, because we're not doing the bullet point, you know, obituary, you know, it's, it's not the, those parts of it. But, you know, even the some of those stories at dinner are very meaningful moments that you have, that might give Trent confidence in a direction he's going that's that's something like that.
Gavin:Yeah, I just honestly, it's pretty simple. I mean, you know, just one or two things, I really hope. I hope I've been a kind person, I hope I've been a positive person, not just positive, in my own mind, but positive toward others. You know, I always try to say, thank you, please, I was trying to smile at people you do, you know, and you don't, that's a good thing. You know, people, you know, not a lot of people do it anymore. But I think it's so important, just number one, to show your humanity and to let someone know, you know, kind of it's like a silent Hello, how are you? You know,
Brian Upton:exactly. And I think I think like you have in a way of sort of an open greeting of like, we don't have to just walk by not look at each other here. You know, it's like it, whether it be a nod or smile. And I think that is that is part of it. And you know, and then then we get to the other things that make somebody some, you know, for me, it's almost better than listing your teaching or coaching or your career achievements. But the was he loyal? Was he funny? Was he, you know, was he carrying? That's fine. I'll edit that shit out. Just stop, throw the microphone around. Sorry. But I think those are the things I think that's the gist of the question is, I'm glad you said that. And I think it's if you haven't, I think it's good for you to think of yourself that way. Because I think that's that that is I could give in I mean, this man, I can give most of the time and give two fucks what my friends do for a living or what they've done. It's like, Are We Connected when we're talking? Are we having fun? Are we the things that are more priority in a relationship and life relationships don't have a lot to do with your resume. It's the resume looks good and obituary, and it must resonate with somebody that might not know you. But that doesn't mean anything in the connection have a kind of an intimate conversation or friendship so and then I'm gonna jump back to another one. That's, I just want to get this on the books because it's different now for sure. But I know that like you're coming back to like your favorite. Like what's it what's the your favorite exercise where you even if it killed you, you still love kind of pushing through it and doing it like is there a couple exercises and things you did? I you know, I've got a couple of my head I know you do but is there one that I'm being maybe because of this the last year or two something you miss doing or something that you really enjoy that kind of pushed you and you enjoy doing?
Gavin:Well exercise? And I I stopped it even before cancer? I I can't remember how I fell out of it. Best exercise. Stop. The best exercise ever did was swimming. Yeah. I mean, I got up to I was swimming almost a mile every other day. For your three days. Right. And that was good. I mean, it built up my lungs. It lose weight. It's what he called it. You know, it's joint friendly. Yep. So
Brian Upton:you're even doing that through some of your knee problems. And so yeah, I remember that would be you'd even go harder. This was years ago, you'd be in rehab to read. Yeah, you'd be on pivot. So that's kind of a random one. But there's some some things that I think, again, kind of get lost in our history of like, like when I met you in 1990 90 I guess well, 91 990 9191 You were you were you were just an active cover the whole court tennis player. And you were you were you were an athlete. Tennis was my sport. Yeah, I mean, and I think that gets lost you played some football in high school, football and tennis and then it was due to school and lacrosse. That's right, because of course can't Denver everyone plays like they have to so it's the isn't anything like that stands out like you know, the this is the global question. And I guess again, but it's your it's your show right now is what are you most proud of in your life? Like if you have you, is there something that stands out that you're that you're most proud of is? This would be this isn't for somebody with a cancer diagnosis a good fucking question for all of us to answer at any point in our life.
Gavin:Well, I gotta be most proud of my boys. And I'm sorry, my wife. I mean, well, I I feel so blessed to have my wife. Yeah, number one. I mean, she she's, and my, she's my caretaker too. And I gotta be honest. If I didn't have her and she wasn't taking such great care of me, I don't think I'd be here right now. Fact. I know. I would.
Brian Upton:I can almost guarantee that. Yeah. Because it's, it's it's a
Gavin:and that's one of the hardest things with people who are sick. Yeah. Number one. It's hard. Even. I'm not gonna say name but a friend of ours on the cruise. He takes care of himself. Yeah, you know, yeah. And, you know, going through chemo and stuff, you see people come I mean, it's kind of unusual for your partner to also be your caretaker. And I mean, really, caretaker. You know,
Brian Upton:the kind you pay$1,000 a month for that kind of, to talk about? Yeah.
Gavin:And then it's also very common, I learned this through my dad and his illness. Very common for people with serious diseases are terminal. The partner leaves within the first
Brian Upton:no doubt about it. There's no doubt about that. And that's over half. It's stunning. It's like 80% You're exactly right. There's two ones that always kind of shocked me one of them's that and the other one is the amount of divorces that happen after like a diagnosis of like Asperger's or the you know, severe sort of you know, can't believe I'm missing the name of it. Todd Julian you know, it's but they the IT people aren't always up for the challenge at the bottom you I mean, it's
Gavin:they they marry in health. That's exactly not you know, they say in sickness, but they don't mean it but they really don't. So we kind of went on by the way on that. Okay. Just say something funny about my wife. Let me think about it. Yes. Okay. So you know, Mary in sickness and in health until death do us part. I don't know if you had a chance to read some of the run of Valentine's day cruise. We are the Valentine's you read somebody read your whole door. So what what was the best one? Jesus now that puts out on the spoil till death do us part is for quitters?
Brian Upton:i It's funny because I think no, this is the classic Brian Upton. Why didn't get a doctor like my brother. I don't think I finished the sentence. Yeah, yeah. We'll go we'll go. One. That is the I think we've we've put it off long enough now. But there's a lot of people that tuned in only to know when will the Broncos win a Super Bowl? I'm gonna give you something easy. I'll give you a five year windows.
Gavin:Yeah, if they're gonna do it, I would have to say within the next three years. I don't think they'll do it next year. But I think you know, Russell's also. Russell Wilson, we're under contract. He's getting older. We have some good offensive pieces now. Right. I don't think that's going to be the case with you know, the salary cap and all. Yeah, but so if hypothetically, if they were going to win the Super Bowl, I think their best chance would be so what next season would be what are the 2020 2020 2324
Brian Upton:C's? So add three or
Gavin:2026 Wow. Although season but Super Bowl probably be in 2027. Right?
Brian Upton:Yeah. And then who's going to be in the Super Bowl next year? Now these are future bets for all those people that are just
Gavin:getting it? Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what. It's still maybe gotta go to San Francisco if they keep their pieces together. I'm not sure their quarterbacks gonna be
Brian Upton:I think he's around town like on the local stuff right now that it's just it's not even a question Sprog party. He'll be out of his surgery in four to six months. And I think that nine I thought I heard he wasn't doing surgery. Well, he's going to do that's called a strapping this where I get on my leg, but he's going to not Tommy John, he's gonna do the one below that which is called strapping or something like that. But he'll be back for, you know, training camp like in July or August. And I just think it's hands down. I think everybody thought they saw enough games that that nine games was enough of a sample and the way he performed in them, he only had the one series in the championship game but I think it's a it's a it's a slam dunk.
Gavin:I think San Francisco if they can stay injury free and keep basically their pieces they had this year I think your favorite next year even ahead of the Eagles. I know you like that. I do like that. In the AFC I hate to say it
Brian Upton:it's Kansas City if it's dynasty. Now, I want to say I changed my mind because they were throwing out seven or eight rookies on that defense. And this was the this was the year where they were a little susceptance Bronco fan. I know that and, but he's he's Patrick mahomes is the next next. There's no doubt about it. And he's very young. And they've got a gamble on defense they took this year, that would have closed the window. And every single one of their rookies paid off, they're there, the next next thing, and then I'm gonna pivot to the last kind of like, I want to say, you never know, I'm not assuming we have time we did the go backwards question you tell yourself. If you could in your basically go and have a conversation, kind of a future conversation. Anything you'd want to say to like, you're innocent, they're different individuals. But my always go to, like you said what you're most proud of. And it corresponds with what I'm most proud of? Anything you'd want to there's things you say as a parent. Right? And I know you've had conversations about we've talked about going into that room and kind of the the reality of all of it. But do you let yourself right now sort of like think about their future? You know, and kind of think about do you have to kind of like, do you start imagining what their lives look like and what you might want to tell them? Or do you feel like you got all in?
Gavin:No, I I do the problem? The problem is twofold. Now, obviously, probably we can do, or you can do another couple podcasts on it. I'm not sure I like where the country is going right now. So I worry about their future in that. politics aside, I just don't it's not same place we grew up in are not even sure the same values are there. So I worry about that. i So, in that regard, I'm not even sure what to tell him. I mean, I want to give them some advice, I want to want to be successful, I want to be happy. But I guess I go back to what I said earlier. Just if they can just make enough to live, make enough to support a family and just be happy, then I think you can do that anywhere out there. I mean, you should be able to do that anywhere. I would hope you can do that here in this country in the US of A and but I think you can do it almost anywhere. But again, you got to be focused on your mindset. You make yourself happy mentally. Yeah, you know, so I don't know. I don't know. I wish I wish I had good advice for them.
Brian Upton:It's impossible. Like I said, it's easy to go back and say what would you have told yourself and you're sitting there, you know, and your kids are also you've seen them through so much of it that a lot of these. We've seen the emotional ones the dad gets a diagnosis, the kids one years old, and he's like, Hey, son, it's your eighth birthday. It's your 12th birthday. Happy 60th Happy 21st you they do those sorts of future videos to like, these these big moments. Oh, I
Gavin:would never do that. I know that you've told me that before but it told you why to Yeah.
Brian Upton:Well tell tell the tale Venezuela why?
Gavin:I don't want people hanging on I don't want my family looking backwards. And I think sometimes with a with a voicemail with a Well, I mean, it's hard enough with pictures and photographs. But I mean to have something interactive or something kind of continue. I mean, there was a movie about that sounds great. Whatever. And I thought about that. Does it feel selfish to you? Yes, I think it is because you still want to be a part of your wife's life for your kid's life. So you leave them you know the movie was this guy leaving love notes or celebrating every anniversary or set a standing up order with flowers.
Brian Upton:You're not there kind of a prick thing to do. Yeah,
Gavin:let's make her cry again. You know?
Brian Upton:What do you do? Again, all these ones you don't have to talk about anything but if you kind of like positively I know I've been in a one conversation but to start thinking positively for rows after like TCC like have you talked about the God knows you guys are not a couple that there's no permissions or anything needed? But do you just like hope for the best like where's your mentality on
Gavin:set her up on dates right now that that's been going on for 24 years?
Brian Upton:Where are the women right now? That's the question but it's just not something is it not? There's no energy in that like thinking about her can it's a weirdest fucking question Gavin thinking about somebody you love so much. They're contentment after you might be gone. It's weird.
Gavin:Look, I I just want to make sure and she's in a good, good spot. financially. I want to make sure hopefully, I mean, mentally it's going to be tough, right? I know how it hurt me losing my father. I know how it hurt my mom losing her husband, right. So I worry about that. And you know, I've tried to talk to the kids a little bit about it. I've tried to talk to her a little bit about it. But you know, ultimately, I want to celebrate what we have now again in a moment. But you know, there's not a lot I can do necessarily the only thing and again, goes back to mental health. You know, I kind of broach the subject with my kids. And they said they were for it. And I think Rose said she was for it, you know, maybe we do some counseling. Now. I mean, I certainly know they offered it right, when I first got my diagnosis, right. And I don't know if that would really help prepare. But, and maybe not, but yeah, I, it's tough, I think they're gonna have to do what they need to do for themselves, kind of, I don't say on their own. Because I think as a family structure, there's more strength in being together as a family there is and you know, leaning on one another, because I know that's what we did.
Brian Upton:And I think the thing I lean into, because when you're looking from the outside looking in, the one thing that's that is so prominent with me is is those kids, but you and I, over the years have discussed now, similar ages of our kids, as we've gone through it is, I think, very much more realizing now that the nature of your relationship with your kids is forever progressing. But that sort of that that that blueprint of who Gavin is, as relates to Trent as who Gavin is as relates to Darren is, it's it's baked in, in my means, like I'm already realizing now my relationship with Taylor, and Ainsley and Bailey's, they become adults in their late 20s and 30s. Right now, it's getting more like our relationship, which is nuanced and funny and things like that. But there's not a lot more of, and I'm not saying like I didn't, you know, I didn't, there wasn't like the book of Brian with it's just the essence of who I was over dinners, trips, car rides, going to ballgames that's in it. And I do I do hold on that. So I when I feel like sort of sad about it. And I think about like, what, it's, it's not that it's not, doesn't have as much importance if you were to stay here on the planet for another 45 years and see them become 80 year olds yourself. But there's not as much Gavin baked and you got that. You got that? That's in them. And I see it when I talk to them individually. When you're not even in the room. One of the kids sometimes I feel like I'm looking at you, Trent sometimes it's it's me. It's sometimes I feel like, do you see yourself and Trent more than Darren, are you astute as a parent? Do you see yourself at all?
Gavin:Oh, I see myself and both of them. Yeah. Trent Trent blows me away with some of how he thinks was how I kind of thought in college or how Yeah, put stuff together. And I'm so proud of him. Because now, you know, you look at you know, they're always your kids kind of want to look down on now. He's kind of exactly that thinking and is some of his thoughts are so up above mine. And I have to kind of what can you what, where'd that come from? A nice quick, he's fine. So it's one of them as best Darren to Yeah, I mean, yeah, you're one
Brian Upton:of the greatest joys I've had. And you're experiencing the same thing as when, in a lot of facets, you kids go by you, you know, they go by you. And I mean, in a positive way. Because my focus is other ways by being by you in certain categories of like, you know, more than I do now. Because there's a long period of time, they just don't at seven or eight or nine or 10. And you can say my kids the smartest kid in kindergarten, we still in fucking kindergarten. Yeah. And I, you know, I can be, but then it gets the point, you'll eventually have that conversation at 22 or 25 or 30, where you're like, oh, that's No, I
Gavin:just love Trent with his degrees and everything. He he's learned a lot, you know, marketing and whatnot. I mean, I had some economics and stuff but didn't have any marketing and man, he'll he'll start talking stuff. And I'm like, wow, but we got our money's worth in college.
Brian Upton:Yeah, we were bullshitting at your house. This was last year at some point. And he was just picking my brain on my business. And I was talking about like what I do, because you told him some aspects of it. And I told him halfway through college, it's very clear to me already after 17 minutes, that I should be hiring you for this. For what they're a joy and then I followed you know, I get a follow Darren on his social media is much more active there. From a standpoint of, you know, what he's doing with his life and it's fun to see him in a committed relationship and that kind of evolving so well, that's gonna we're just gonna wrap it I think we'll wrap this one and I think the science point towards I've got more questions to do.
Gavin:You know, and we still haven't thought of what I'd put my name on yet. Oh, shit. That'd
Brian Upton:be fun. Next one. That'll save us. Then again, I think you need to cut out the thought that you're taking anything from somebody. It's just used my assistant What would I like Sistine Chapel example? Let's just I like Brian Upton went to school. I played football in college. I coached my three kids and then right after I moved to New York, I created the iPhone you know
Gavin:it just pop the Lord just popped in my head what? Carl Sagan
Brian Upton:wait so what wait a minute you want to you want to be a person
Gavin:well know what he kind of what he thought of you know his book contact and kind of you want your name on the bottom of that book billions and billions of stars
Brian Upton:by Gavin writer cosmos by Gavin writer I love you brother Love you too. Alright man, that was fun.