Broken Tiles
Life is complicated and messy...Brian & Stacey Upton play question games each episode that spark intimate and personal revelations about their marriage, personal hopes and fears, raising kids and the challenge of planning the next chapter. Follow us on Instagram! www.instagram.com@thebrokentilespodcast
Broken Tiles
Letting Go, “Oops” Babies & LEGO's
What happens when you stop trying to control everything and start setting boundaries for yourself? Join us on the Broken Tiles Podcast as we explore the nuanced journey of personal growth and therapy, seasoned with our signature humor and introspection. Discover the delicate dance between guiding and letting go, especially from a parental perspective, while pondering the motivations behind our need to control outcomes. Engage with us in a discussion that blends heartfelt insight and playful banter, encouraging reflection on compassion, self-preservation, and the art of establishing boundaries.
Relationships are complex, and the intricacies of codependency add another layer to this complexity. We dive into the implications of codependency with children, friends, and partners, shedding light on the draining nature of emotional vampires and how to manage our time with them. With a nod to the whimsical, we venture into the world of music genres and how they humorously reflect our personalities. From "alt-indie twang" to the soulful vibes of 80s music, we share a light-hearted exchange that captures the essence of our personal characteristics through music.
Mistakes can be unexpected gifts wrapped in life's challenges. We share personal and business stories where unforeseen events led to profound insights. From the delightful surprise of an "oops baby" to lessons learned from a breach of trust, we reveal how such experiences can reshape our understanding of what's truly important. Our conversation meanders through recurring dreams and the balance between freedom and order, ultimately tying together themes of anxiety, creativity, and self-discovery. Join us for an episode that promises both thought-provoking discussions and moments of levity.
Ready to go? Yep.
Speaker 2:This is the Broken Tiles Podcast.
Speaker 1:Still can't get over it.
Speaker 2:Get over what.
Speaker 1:That intro.
Speaker 2:It's awesome.
Speaker 1:Select a seven. Select a seven At select a seven on Instagram I think that's kind of his best handle. He's got all of his link tree um connections on there. Uh does a lot of different kinds of work. We talked about super appreciate this. We'll break out What'd he do Three or four different, five different intros for us to play around with. Yeah, that's right I couldn't find it, so we went with you two times in a row. Babe, how are you?
Speaker 2:I'm okay. How are you?
Speaker 1:How was therapy?
Speaker 2:It was very good.
Speaker 1:Should we kick off a little bit of therapy in broad terms. Sure, I don't know what you're thinking, but Well, I think there's the fact that we're doing it on a Tuesday again. You just walked out of therapy like a hot minute ago. Yes, feels like maybe I think we did last week or two weeks ago um, any broad topics to kind of like talk about and maybe we can pass on and people can talk about shit or talk shit about you?
Speaker 2:yeah, they could certainly do that. I would say in general terms that well, it actually. I brought two situations to talk about, but they really are the same topic. Uh, letting go of things that don't concern me or don't have to concern me, that I seem to want to help and change situations that aren't mine to change.
Speaker 1:Uh, work life, um, like like past history, history, everything, family, family, yeah, that's, um, I think that possibly is in a way, um, everybody's a little different, but in a way that might be one of the hardest things, especially from a parent standpoint. Yeah, to let things go that you have no control over. Is that what you said? No control over?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's not my place to try to fix it for somebody else.
Speaker 1:That's the weird line. That's the weird line because all it is is your place, from zero to 18.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:It's your very specific place, it's the charter, it's your place, and I'm talking not necessarily by emotion. I guess what I'm talking about is by the weird world and place we live in legally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think there's a difference between fixing and guiding. And then I mean, really, what we're supposed to do as parents is to guide our children to become fully functioning members of the community, adults able to have healthy relationships of their own, not fix things for them. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:No, I know exactly what you're saying. You know, as far as um it's that classic story of you can keep them even you cannot. You put like gates around the radiator or in a way they can possibly maybe rub up against it or touch it and they'll learn themselves not to touch it again. So you can either keep um all of those little variables and circumstances and scary things away and eventually it's going to land. Yeah yeah, that's a heavy one.
Speaker 2:But even that desire to help is it's not just zeroed in on one's kids, I mean, it can go to different relationships too, different relationships too. And so it's like how do you figure out how to balance between compassion and wanting to be supportive? I just there can be a line that you cross and at what point do you determine, oh, I need to keep my own self safe and keep my own boundaries, that's. I think that's what I'm struggling with.
Speaker 1:Does she get to the core? My gut feeling this is what will be interesting to see what you say if you go down this path is is our inclination to do that? To say control an outcome of an uncontrollable event? Maybe it is even controllable. It's probably not fair to say control an outcome of an uncontrollable event. Maybe it is even controllable. It's probably not fair to say Maybe it's not yours.
Speaker 1:to control is maybe the better thing, but is it based in insecurity? Do you think like? I guess the question is this instead of being kind of like so kind of obscure about it is why would we give a fuck about somebody else that way and want a result that we have in mind for them? It's kind of a weird thing, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I understand what you're getting at.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, because that was very confusing.
Speaker 2:I know I don't know if anybody listening will understand what you're getting at, but I think what you're saying is let's see how can I put it into a different term. Is let's see how can I put it into a different term For doing something for our own self-gratification. Is that what you're trying to get at?
Speaker 1:No what I'm saying, I'm going down to the root of it, like we're cruising along and eventually I'm wondering my end result is I think it's an insecurity that we would want to control somebody else's direction in their life or an outcome of a result and I don't even know why I would say that, but I can't think a murder trial. What's my motivation to control a result for somebody else on the planet, like why do I even start there? I'm going deep, deep into it, like like we do do that and it is hard to let go of things we can't control. The question is why do we want to control things?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Because things that feel out of control is so uncomfortable. But in theory and this is where we're getting into the deep, high weeds is if we know that having control is going to give us a security and being out of control is something that gives us anxiety. We want to take control from somebody. It's, that's the, that's the fuck. I guess that's the roundabout thing I'm getting is for us to kind of feel so really, what we want to do is control our little environment by controlling a narrative or something else in somebody else and in essence, what you're doing is you're taking from them the thing that's giving you the stress, which would be an ability to learn, control or control their own lives or control a situation. Does that make sense? I'm really rambling around today, but does that kind of make sense what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:I think it makes sense what you're saying.
Speaker 1:It's kind of it's sort of it's kind of messed up in a way. I kind of like this conversation because, like everything else, I think I like going deeper into the motivations of why we do what we do and why we lose so much time. So here's the thing you lay on a couch, I'm assuming, and she's smoking a pipe and sitting in a high red back chair.
Speaker 2:In a tweed coat with leather patches on her elbows.
Speaker 1:That's exactly it, and the lights are kind of dim.
Speaker 2:No, Right, the lights were dim.
Speaker 1:And you're laying flat on the couch with a little it's like a leather couch and your head's on a round firm pillow, and then she's sitting with her legs crossed smoking a pipe and there's like a smoke in the air while you're talking. And there's like a smoke in the air while you're talking and she has a beard. Not at all. And this will be a teaser, for mine is if you're thinking all the time, it's the same problem as talking all the time. And if I'm thinking about, I'm overthinking even this part of it, but I don't know if I'm overthinking it as much as I'm really curious about it. I'm curious about agendas, I'm curious about what makes us, because we all do it. I do it at work, I do it at work with people, I do it in relationships. I've done it over a period of time. You have an inclination. What's that?
Speaker 2:It's solving for something, yeah, and somebody that's, I don't know, in the midst of a chaotic situation. I want to help quell the chaos, likely because growing up there were chaotic situations at home and that was really hard to live with and I just wanted to figure out a way to make the chaos stop.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And so if it happens now, even if it's not my chaos to solve, I still want to figure out how to solve it. Interesting, Because I'm very uncomfortable with it, and then this is great.
Speaker 1:This is actually a great way to talk about a therapy session. We haven't talked about shit as far as interpersonal. Did you come out with any shareable fundamentals? Do you think today's session like there's quite a few people that listen and is there a simple like?
Speaker 2:again, not not diagnosing other people, but really about recognizing what is and isn't my, isn't my, my responsibility, you know? Um, really, I mean, I have to take a step backwards and be objective and think, okay, whose problem is this? And, uh, is it actually mine to solve?
Speaker 1:Interesting, and are you actually?
Speaker 2:and usually it's not mine to solve.
Speaker 1:And there's probably the we've had this conversation many times about raising kids is that you're actually most likely setting them back or doing long term harm by solving it for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a it's not helpful.
Speaker 2:No, this isn't just about kids.
Speaker 1:You know, there's other situations that I find I want to intercede, yeah when we talk about this I'm talking about, this is such a broad topic.
Speaker 2:I think we're talking about work, relationships, kids, you know it goes and other relationships, other relationships, just friendships and stuff. Absolutely I think it's one single conversation and stuff. I think it's one single conversation.
Speaker 2:Well, okay, so here's what she suggested is to really dive into some of the literature about codependency, because codependency that body of literature and that thought process, was originally geared towards people in relationship with somebody with addiction issues, whether it be alcohol or drugs or whatever it might be. But the same philosophies stand true for mental illness or somebody that's just typically chaotic I can't think of a better word for it no interesting.
Speaker 1:Codependency is a circular relationship in which one person needs the other person who, in turn, needs to be needed. The codependent person, known as the giver, feels worthless unless they are needed, by and making sacrifices for the enabler, otherwise known as the taker.
Speaker 2:Yeah, damn Interesting, isn't it? It is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so many times I go through my 56 plus, whatever days and months it is, and I've never looked that up.
Speaker 3:Oh you haven't?
Speaker 1:I don't think so. Why would I? I take it in the context of a conversation and you get the gist of it. But how many times do you ever stop and just kind of say maybe I shouldn't take the gist of it?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's interesting. I'm down yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So much is like you know, but that classic boundaries, boundaries, and then that, and then if, eventually, if you are going to step in, maybe what you need to do is you've qualified it by setting the boundaries, that if you feel, if you have to go over a boundary, you've set strong enough boundaries, that maybe you've used that word again qualified it a little more that you're're going to step in one of a hundred times, rather than 60 of a hundred times or 70 of a hundred.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but ideally you don't step in when it's not yours to fix.
Speaker 1:But that stresses me out.
Speaker 2:I know, man, but that's where and also coming up with ways. It's almost like having a personal rule, like, say, you have a friend who is just almost like an emotional vampire in a sense and you recognize that it's not good for you to stay on the phone for a long time with this person because they just take a lot out of you, and so you can set this boundary or a personal rule of okay, I'm going to give this person a 10-minute phone call, as opposed to the hour and a half we might normally do. And so you even start off the call saying, okay, before we get started, I've got to be off the phone in 10 minutes or whatever. So you give that person that time and you're fully present and you approach it with compassion, and then you're done.
Speaker 1:I like the what we do in the shadows reference you just gave with the emotional vampires. Question is did emotional vampires exist before what we did in the shadows? Yes, it does exist. That word exists before that show that phrase.
Speaker 2:yeah.
Speaker 1:It does, yeah, and we know a lot, we know, I know, we all.
Speaker 2:We all know. Not only do we know, I think everybody does, and I think we all have done it. Yeah, I think that's probably true at one point or another.
Speaker 1:I another. I'm on definitions right now.
Speaker 2:Okay, now, what An emotional vampire, someone who drains the energy of others through manipulation, guilt, tripping and other behaviors.
Speaker 1:Wow yeah, I'm looking right at you, babe. Uncool. So that's any more in the session, or is that pretty good?
Speaker 2:Well, you know me, I'm a slow processor. I just left, I got to keep thinking.
Speaker 1:I know what to do when that happens. Much better producing this episode than last so far. Yeah, knock on wood, I should do that.
Speaker 1:Let me get this one out of the way and I'll even play it again, but do it right at the top here, because I think that's the way we should be doing. It is. We are downtown in Santa Cruz at Satellite Coworking Space and Digital Media Studio. Satellite Santa Cruz and Digital Media Studio is the office, workspace and studio you need coworking, private offices, virtual office plans, video production studio, video editing suites, meeting and conference rooms, available when you need it, 24-7. We've got our FOB. I've come in late, early.
Speaker 4:This place is amazing Satellitecommunitytvorg.
Speaker 1:Or you can just call Olivia at 831-531-2300. Schedule the tour. That's how it all started for me and we've been using it. I think I'm going to call this room because we're using all the studios for different things Got the big TV studio for the, you know, the larger podcasts and the cameras and stuff like that. I think I'm going to call this one the cubby.
Speaker 2:Oh, I like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when we work in here, we're working in the studio, but it's the cubby studio, we're just the Cubby. Question numero uno.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I have taken cards from three different question games because I'm really expanding things for us. First one I'm going to read is from the Adventure Challenge Connection Cards Couples Edition. Okay, this is kind of cute. If I were a genre of music, what would I be and why?
Speaker 3:Hmm.
Speaker 1:You would be. I think you would be in the for sure. I think I'd eventually put you because of. I can't get past your style of music. You really like sort of the it's not probably the right word storyteller kind of artists, but the genre would probably be man. You have a little bit. You do tend towards a little bit shockingly in the twang a little bit.
Speaker 2:I'm a little bit country. You are a little bit rock and roll. You are a little bit. I'm a little bit country, you are A little bit rock and roll.
Speaker 1:You are a little bit so I don't even know what that's called Like, what's the? I don't know. Would it be? Would it be?
Speaker 2:Well, Rhett Miller calls his music alt country.
Speaker 1:It's not quite all the way, though.
Speaker 2:Americana. I've heard Americana, I I would call you alt-indie country.
Speaker 1:No, alt-indie, Alt-indie With a twang. Can we do that? We can stop doing that now. So if you were a genre music, it would be alt-indie. I'm going to say this because I think it's more. But alt-indie rock is really kind of an existing one. I got to get that twang in there. Alt-indie. I'm going to say this because I think it's more. But alt-indie rock is really kind of an existing one. I got to get that twang in there. Alt-indie, twang.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 1:That's your genre. Alt-indie twang.
Speaker 2:You just made that up.
Speaker 1:I did. It works and that's the one I give to you. That is what I like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but what if you were about, like, a personality style? Okay, I'm going to tell you what I've thought of for you, but I don't know what the genre is called.
Speaker 1:Ooh, honey, that's Taylor Upton. We're supposed to always take it when the kids call in.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:We have a rule. Should we try it, Taylor? Taylor, you're on the podcast, Taylor. We have a rule that if any of the kids ever call in as crappy as your connection is right now and you're on your phone, which is on your speaker, which means it's going to be horrible, yeah, see.
Speaker 3:Is this better?
Speaker 1:Way better.
Speaker 3:Only the best to the podcast.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we'll call you after we're done here, but you're going to have to answer the question. We're on right now and you have to answer it for both of us and then we'll answer it for you.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm ready, all right. Okay, if I were a genre of music, what would I be and why?
Speaker 3:Whatever, because it's relaxing you just cut out.
Speaker 1:You cut out a little bit, say that again, hold on.
Speaker 3:Okay, I was just making you off Bluetooth. I said whatever genre Enya falls into you, because it's relaxing and it's what you birthed me to.
Speaker 1:That's very true. And then the same question for me, which is if I were genre music, what would it be?
Speaker 3:Maybe like bad 80s rap, but like that's catchy.
Speaker 1:Bad catchy 80s rap. That's pretty good, yes, like some just the good stuff.
Speaker 3:You can't turn it off but you don't really want to share it with, like the world might not like it, but we always like it.
Speaker 1:So it'd be like something like maybe this Hold on.
Speaker 3:You can't hear this, but it's playing.
Speaker 1:Let it play for a second. This is for the people, this is kid and play and this is some old school eighties cheese.
Speaker 3:Very myself.
Speaker 1:Like something like that right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like the stuff that goes. Like that was it. That's a-ha, taylor, you should play a little bit of what mom sounds like.
Speaker 1:I came up with a genre of music for mom, and it's called alt-indie twang. I made up a genre what's mine? Oh, that's a good question We've got to answer for Taylor.
Speaker 2:Well, Taylor is a powerful woman. Is there a genre that would be like queens?
Speaker 1:No, get out of here. It's ridiculous. Keep going. This is outrageous.
Speaker 2:I'll listen. I don't know what different genres are called, but I'm thinking of powerful voices.
Speaker 3:I'm thinking like Beyonce, Lady Gaga.
Speaker 1:My answer is just simply it's going to be a genre that will be created after everybody's come and gone, but she is Lady Gaga-esque.
Speaker 3:Oh, that works, but with the ability to dance like Shakira.
Speaker 2:But can you dance like Shakira?
Speaker 3:No, no, but I like to think I can if I wanted to and applied myself to learning.
Speaker 1:All right, okay, we're dumping you, we're going to finish this Wait.
Speaker 3:is she called?
Speaker 1:Is there an emergency? Is there an emergency, Taylor?
Speaker 3:No, I was just coming to say hi, oh good.
Speaker 1:Well say hi, oh good, well, we'll call you later then. We love you I love you.
Speaker 2:Bye, you were going to start what was? Did you answer mine or no? You're gonna lean into it, so tell me what genre is luther vandross?
Speaker 1:oh, that's just like um, that's soul music well.
Speaker 2:So that's, that's what I think of you. I think of Luther Vandross, because you've got a lot of soul, you're very deep, but you also have a really big libido.
Speaker 1:And that was the I'm getting lucky music in the 80s. Yeah, that's what that is. Yep, that's Brian Upton. This is my music, this is me, that's your genre. I'm gonna type in uh, I'm gonna type in alt, indie twang and see what comes up on spotify right now happens all indie twang, oh, indie Twang, indie twang. But it's actually good.
Speaker 2:Let's see oh yep, that's me. It's not bad, not bad at all.
Speaker 1:So the bottom line is I won the question.
Speaker 2:I didn't know we were winning these.
Speaker 1:You said I'm a cheesy soul singer from the 80s. No, Luther's not cheesy.
Speaker 2:No, he's not.
Speaker 1:Luther was the man. I see that as a high compliment.
Speaker 2:It is a high compliment.
Speaker 1:And so this is a very shallow green question, but if we were to broaden it out, you know to like, like we always do, maybe an interesting question to ask, not on, clearly not a first date question.
Speaker 2:It's fun. Yeah, it's somebody. You got to know them well enough to try to.
Speaker 1:But not too well. Maybe after, like you know, maybe after X amount of dates, or a year, or whatever it might be it might be fun to start Like. It's like you know what I think I'd consider it. I think I'd consider it like a good check-in kind of question. Years or a year, two years in the relationship. How are you seeing me? Like are you a million miles away? Have you never thought of it? You know as far as you know those kind of questions.
Speaker 1:I think on that podcast you did with Mike Howard the other day. I was listening to one of the questions and it made me think about he did some counseling and it doesn't narrow it down who he counseled, but he said something off the cuff and he said it to me before and that's on the Mike Howard show is the.
Speaker 1:Unpacked and Naked podcast. But he said something casually. He said, like when he counseled people about like kind of like getting to questions like this, he was, he said, just alluded to the fact some people don't know the color of their partner's eyes. Yeah, check in here and there with you know, with your partner, even on something as obscure as that could be helpful. Right, you all right there, babe.
Speaker 2:I was trying to cough quietly.
Speaker 1:Get some. It's not working out, get some. What we'll do is, when in doubt, we can always go to a commercial break. If needed, you back with me. To a commercial break. If needed, you back with me, mm-hmm. And so do you agree with that as far as possibly a good way to loosen it up a little bit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1:All right, let's go. The next one's got to be a little bit deeper babe, I'm sorry, I keep coughing.
Speaker 3:Uh-oh.
Speaker 2:Okay, so this is from a deck of cards by a company called the, and I don't know why I keep coughing, sorry.
Speaker 1:You don't want to drink that tea, do you?
Speaker 2:No, I don't that will ruin me.
Speaker 1:Let me take it over a little bit. What's the unexpected gift we receive from this, from a mistake we've made? Oh, we might be in trouble.
Speaker 2:I think I'm back.
Speaker 1:You are back. What's the unexpected gift we've received from a mistake we've made?
Speaker 2:Oh, Can I tell you what first came to my mind?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 2:Ainsley.
Speaker 1:Oh man, A whole human being.
Speaker 2:A whole human being. She's pretty delightful.
Speaker 1:She was the classic and she knows this. We're not breaking news on it. She was the classic oops baby. That's a good one, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that's a gift. Yeah, I think it's an interesting way to look at that though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a gift.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's an interesting way to look at that because there's, there's. I think that's the only way we look at it and I think we would have been, you know, whatever I think we joked about it before at some point that you know you have Bailey and you have X amount of days before you can basically participate in activities again that make babies, and we weren't too far off the day or the week. It was pretty close to wait this long.
Speaker 2:Well, you have to wait six weeks. It was six months later and I was pregnant again, but that's because of breastfeeding Breastfeeding. If you're breastfeeding consistently, it can be. It's not a fail safe, but it can work as birth control. It keeps you from ovulating.
Speaker 1:I never had them that far apart. So July, august, september, october, so they're four months apart and it takes nine months apparently to produce a baby To grow a baby. All right, all right, and so it was pretty fast. It was still, I think, in the category of oops and it was the most amazing oops of all time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, quite awesome yeah. We were excited.
Speaker 1:Very.
Speaker 2:Do you have any other ideas about a mistake that a gift for? Oh, I have another idea. Go ahead. I guess you could call it business mistakes. We went through a really rough time with a partner of yours that had embezzled money.
Speaker 1:I stole all my shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it was extremely hard, but we definitely grew closer over that and really reevaluated what was important to us and it became a good thing in the end and the mistake was the mistake was. I don't know. I don't want to say trusting him, but maybe um, not being as aware of like staying on top of business things as I think it is.
Speaker 1:I think the answer is the mistake and it's. I kind of said that knowing what my answer would be. Is it? The mistake was trust, and that the mistake is trust does not have the same standing in a business relationship as it does in a personal relationship.
Speaker 1:Oh in my mind it exists for sure, you know, but the trust that exists in the kind of confines of a business relationship kind of go more down the lines of trusting that it's a safe environment to work, that it's a healthy environment to work, that you know that everything is above board, and that's the thing that I trusted him, like a brother and the godfather of our daughter, the oops baby. It has to be in its own category that if you trust somebody like a brother, or a godfather to your daughter.
Speaker 1:you still should check all of those accounts. You still should check that you're not just taking your quarterly kind of like small commissions and 3,000 miles away hoping everything's going okay in Colorado. Hoping everything's going okay in Colorado, yeah. And so I think the problem there was that the trust of a friend was used in the day-to-day business and it doesn't have a place there. It can still exist, but it doesn't have the same standings. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, because business is still business, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:In the end I still business. I guess, yeah, in the end.
Speaker 1:I don't know if we got to the other side of that. I don't know if that was your answer or mine.
Speaker 2:I gave two. Did you have another one?
Speaker 1:No, I think if I was going to land on a mistake, that that came with an unexpected gift. Unexpected gift. I think it would somehow kind of land probably for me in that, the big swings of our life. It has to be that trying to dig if there's anything else that jumps out at me that would have possibly, you know, kind of risen to that level a mistake. It's a really good question. It is.
Speaker 1:I think I'm going to land on that one, because that was kind of my default as far as what it fundamentally changed me. That mistake in trusting him led to a long-term kind of like you know catastrophic result, and the gift was that you know the perspective that nothing is forever. It felt like forever. It's not. And then also possibly, how you kind of go about. You know your dealings and you know the way you see and trust people. It's an interesting take.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is because, you know, it seems often it seems like the right thing to do is trust somebody that you've had deep conversations with. It seems strange to to make the decision to be careful about that trust, and yet I think we have to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's no doubt we do, and so I think that's a good one.
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Speaker 1:Honey, that's Wilford Brimley.
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Speaker 1:What was the other commercial he was in Famous Today's Braniff the? Best low fare in the air.
Speaker 2:His name sounds familiar, but I don't know.
Speaker 1:Well, you would know, I'm going to go out on a limb and then we'll kind of verify it later, but I think it's oatmeal. Didn't he slop oatmeal?
Speaker 2:in the 70s. Yeah, I think you're right. Something like that Quaker oatmeal, yeah, quaker oatmeal.
Speaker 1:Are you on? Three already Simple little questions today what you got.
Speaker 2:Okay, this comes from Esther Perel's box, a game called when Should we Begin, and this is a conversation card where it just gives us a prompt that we have to finish.
Speaker 1:In my recurring dream, I am so we have to share about a recurring dream, wow.
Speaker 2:Are you ready to go, since you kind of knew it? I know I've had other recurring dreams. Oh yeah, this is a more recent one. I was going to share one from childhood, but it's been a while since. I've had other recurring dreams. Oh yeah, this is a more recent one. I was going to share one from childhood, but it's been a while since I've had that. So a more recent one I have every so often is we are in a house that we have to be out of in the next day and we haven't packed anything and you've left.
Speaker 1:Sounds like us.
Speaker 2:And I have to pack.
Speaker 1:And I'm stressed. Why do you think you have this dream?
Speaker 2:Why don't you tell me?
Speaker 1:I mean, there's the couch one, which is you're completely dissatisfied, you don't trust me, you feel like I'm going to abandon you. Hold on, you have the invisible burden that you carry that I am at any point unreliable to be counted on on any level when it's meaningful. But that's not true, though. Every single vacation we take outside of moving from the house. But I think, deep down on the couch with your psychiatrist and her pipe, it's probably more the ones I said at the beginning.
Speaker 2:Oh, at least they're less frequent now what do you think it means? Well, it's definitely anxiety. Um, I can't say it's because you never come through, because you always do come through. It just takes a while sometimes yeah, and so you're on different timelines and maybe that goes back to the very first thing I was saying. I want to fix something that's not mine to fix.
Speaker 1:Like you, yeah, like the entirety of me. Yeah, there's no doubt. And so the dream again is that we're moving and we have a short period of time and I just take off.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a damning one. It's terrible. My reoccurring dreams with you, if anything, are not one repeatable on a podcast, and I almost feel like you picked this question just to no, I didn't. Well, there's a chance that it's really a. It's an. It's an inequitable position, because I think you pick a question. You're like I've got a good one, and then I know Brian's going to be stuck.
Speaker 2:Because I actually try to pick these questions without choosing them. I know, I know.
Speaker 1:It's a better. It's a better narrative if it's intentional for you. No, the Beto runs wild in my dreams. It's just been like that since I was 12, 13 years old. The recurring dreams are not always sexual by any means, but it does lend towards the I guess we'll say the romantic side of it, fantastical side of it. And that's when the question was specifically how do you appear in my reoccurring dreams?
Speaker 1:In my recurring dream I am oh, I don't know how I got to that point. I guess I was the star of yours, but you said you were moving. Yeah, in my reoccurring dreams, like I thought it was. I thought it was more like how do you appear? When you do appear in mine, I miss, I misunderstood it.
Speaker 1:So I guess in my reoccurring dreams, my reoccurring dreams are very like they run in a alternate sort of timeline and universe to the world I'm living in, just with like a fantastical turn of ideas.
Speaker 1:Like I wake up, a lot of my dreams are the day I had or the meeting I'm going to have the next day, or an idea that I had. But I do have some really kind of and you know, one or two or three out of every 10 practical ideas come out of those dreams. Like I think I do a lot of role playing in my dreams, like, like almost like future, hoping or or thinking about the best possible outcome. And I think in dreams, for some reason it's sort of my dreams are fairly, and have always been fairly cinematic. You know, when I, when I have the dreams are very real, but they're also mostly grounded in what I'm doing and the outcome that I want you know for right now I think a lot of times. I do think about business ideas and different ways to market and promote vibes or the podcast with Nellie and things like that.
Speaker 2:You often wake up and say, oh, I had the best idea. Yeah, best idea.
Speaker 1:When I was writing the book. I would go to sleep and I would continue writing the book in my dreams, or a chapter would evolve in the dreams. I would either scribble it or you know kind of kind of get that down. And there was even like that little documentary that Nellie and I came up with that we're working on with the kind of the the environment surfing is. I think all it was scribbled down the side of the table was Zac Efron, nellie and Anthony Bourdain. Yeah, zac Efron.
Speaker 1:Nellie and Anthony Bourdain and it took me like three weeks to figure out why I wrote that down, and then it all kind of came together. But I'd say, that's probably. You know, that's probably where I kind of land.
Speaker 2:Do you recall having any recurring dreams as a kid?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we've spoken about this. I do not. This question, this question is very different, but I think. But it's been so long. I doubt if it would. I doubt if it would be, um, uh, I doubt if it would be. You know, there's been 30 or 20 of these, whatever it is. But my reoccurring dream when I was a kid all the way for like five years, was my second grade teacher, mrs Cubis, had been in a car accident and I was aware of that. And my dream is I'm in my room and I can't stop myself from getting out of my bed and walking down our long hallway at Orchard Street and I've told you this before and she's in the little glass frame of the door and she's on fire, but blue.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh and I can't stop from walking towards it.
Speaker 2:That's scary.
Speaker 1:And I had it for like three years.
Speaker 2:Wow, that really hurt, not every night. Yeah, I had it for like three years.
Speaker 1:Wow, that really Not every night, yeah, but you know more than I wanted, right? And every single time it's a dream within the dream and I didn't want to get out of bed, but I can't not get out of bed because I'm watching myself in it. But I had that one, did you? That's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The one I really remember is I was in my dream. I'm in my bed which was a water bed because those were really big at that day and age and it was way high up off the ground and I look over my bed and on the floor all around my bed are black widow spiders. And I couldn't get out of my bed. I couldn't go anywhere. I was like a prisoner in my bed because of them.
Speaker 1:So you basically dream about moving and not getting help in Blackwood. Your dreams are shit. They are. You don't have great dreams, do you? No, not, really Not really. No, I mean not like you know. I'd say 85%, 90% of my dreams are deeply enjoyable and I like them, yeah. So my question we're going to see if we can keep.
Speaker 1:I think I know enough of our listeners to know that they're going to stay with us, but I'm I guess we can tell the story now, because I did it real time last time is that I truly felt like I looked in your eyes for 30 seconds last time and when we did the edit and played it back I timed it out was 14 seconds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it wasn't very long.
Speaker 1:No, I'm going to play this one and this is going to be. I think I want to talk. I didn't want to do a question. I want to talk to you about this.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And you know if you want to take. You know I don't know if you want to take some notes as we do it, but I think this was I want to. This one's been really affecting me lately. It's the artist is Addie Goldstein and it's the words are from a gentleman named Alan Watts. Okay, and I've been listening to this a lot lately.
Speaker 5:But you know, if you talk all the time, you'll never hear what anybody else has to say and therefore all you'll have to talk about is your own conversation. The same is true for people who think all the time. That means, when I use the word think, talking to yourself, subvocal conversation, the constant chit-chat of symbols and images and talk and words inside your skull. Now, if you do that all the time, you'll find that you've nothing to think about except thinking. Just as you have to stop talking to hear what others have to say, you have to stop thinking to find out what life is about. And the moment you stop thinking, you become into immediate contact with what Korzybski called, so delightfully, the unspeakable world. The most ordinary sights and sounds, smells, the texture of shadows on the floor in front of you. All these things without being named and saying that's a shadow, that's red, that's brown, that's somebody's foot. When you don't name things any longer, you start seeing, because, say, when a person says I see a leaf, immediately one thinks of a spearhead shaped thing outlined in black and filled in with flat green. No, leaf looks like that, no leaves. Leaves are not green.
Speaker 5:That's why Lao Tzu said the five colors make a man blind.
Speaker 5:The five tones make a man deaf, because if you can only see five colors, you're blind, and if you can only hear five tones in music, you're deaf.
Speaker 5:See, if you, if you force sound into five tones, you force color into five colors, you're blind and deaf. The world of color is infinite, as in the world of sound, and it is only through stopping fixing conceptions on the world of color is infinite, as is the world of sound, and it is only through stopping fixing conceptions on the world of color and sound that you really begin to hear it and see it. So let me say again, I'm not talking about the ordering of ordinary, everyday life in a reasonable and methodical way as being school teachers and saying it nice, if you were nice people, that's what you would do. Heaven's sake, don't be nice people. But the thing is that unless you do have that basic framework of a certain kind of order and a certain kind of discipline, the force of liberation will blow the world to pieces. It's too strong a current for the wire there's so much to think about there.
Speaker 1:That's what I thought. It's kind of deep right. It's like there's so I mean, like stream of consciousness, what hits you the most out of that.
Speaker 2:I think we sometimes how do I say this? We don't have words or maybe don't need words to explain our experience, Because if it's limited to words, we maybe lose the richness of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the one that hit me for this one and it was really like just in the face is I always felt so literally till I heard this, like six months ago, is I always felt so literally till I heard this, like six months ago, I always felt so intimate and so comfortable with the nonstop thoughts in my head. It's all I do. It's all I do, and maybe it's something that has to do with like what we talked about when you outed me last week on OCD or something like that. But I can't stop doing that and I've always thought it to be one of the best things about me that I'm processing, strategizing, thinking, analyzing big stuff. It doesn't stress me out, it's peaceful. But he comes out and says if you talk all the time, you will never hear what anybody else has to say. I've gotten over that as life goes on. Age is great. You give more space. This podcast is good. I always kind of look at our numbers when it does the transcription. We're 48, 52, 49, 51. It works out.
Speaker 1:It just kind of works out, and this is a good lesson in that and therefore all you have to do is, and therefore, all you have to talk about is your own conversations. This, all you have to talk about is your own conversations. This next one the same is true for people who think all the time. That means, when I use the word think, talking to yourself, sub-vocal conversation, the constant chit-chat of symbols and images, and talk in words inside your skull. Now, if you do that all the time, you'll find that you have nothing to think about except thinking. It's the same problem. It is, except thinking it's the same problem. It is Clearly.
Speaker 1:You know, I've tried. You try to overcome over-talking somebody and basically dominating a room, and if you're just talking, talking, then you're just hearing yourself talk. But I've always felt really private in my thoughts, right, and so I've been trying more and more. As you know, I even wrote an editorial about it, like this meditation thing. I will tell you one thing I just realized that I've never done this before. That's as focused I've been on this words in this podcast than I've ever been in a sauna or trying to do it anywhere else. So that's an interesting, weird thing that maybe it's the room or there's nothing else to do right now, but that's the first time looking down at the words, the lyrics on it.
Speaker 2:There wasn't anything else to focus on.
Speaker 1:That's the first time I've gone all the way through like that.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that was. You know that's a big one. And then the last one. I'm curious to see what you think of this one, so I want to go back a little bit. It's this one, the force, this.
Speaker 2:Something about the liberation of something or other. The force this. Something about the liberation of something or other.
Speaker 1:It's that. Forget this first part. The one I want to get to is it's this thing about the force of liberation will blow the world to pieces. It's too strong a current for the wire. He's talking about order. Let's see if he can come back in here. This last part.
Speaker 5:This be nice people, but the thing, is that unless you do have that basic framework of a certain kind of order and a certain kind of discipline, the force of liberation will blow the world to pieces. It's too strong a current for the wire.
Speaker 1:What do you think that means? Do you get anything out of that?
Speaker 2:Well, I think what he's saying is even with liberation, we need to have some sort of order, because without any kind of order, it's chaos.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it, and it can't be more beautifully said than that. You mean the way he said it.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because I think we often feel like what we want is just freedom and liberation, and yet what he's saying is that it's maybe a bad thing to have no restraints at all or disciplines, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, disciplines, yeah, yeah, very interesting.
Speaker 2:This is a nice version.
Speaker 1:Why.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's a different language, that's right.
Speaker 1:Espanol Wow, isn't it beautiful.
Speaker 2:I like it. It's a pretty language. Yeah, it's all I hear all day. I wish I could speak it.
Speaker 1:It's a pretty language. Yeah, that's all I hear all day. I wish I could speak it. I wish I hadn't bombed out in high school and given up on the language altogether, did we?
Speaker 2:have any other orders of business?
Speaker 1:No, I do have one small one that, as we kind of I think we kind of mentioned where we're at, it'll be helpful as we kind of continue. This is, if you are listening, whatever you're listening on Spotify, apple, google, amazon is to leave reviews on the podcast. I think it's super helpful At least kind of like mark it up and maybe drop in a line or two about what you think about the podcast or questions you'd want us to ask. Things like that it's probably a good place to do it and I think it'll also kind of help us as we're trying to kind of work on the management side of it with vibes. We're starting to do more and more podcast management.
Speaker 2:I'm just super curious to hear what people think and what they'd like to hear. You know, I think it would be interesting.
Speaker 1:And are you ready to do a quick review?
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I don't know what we're reviewing, but we will right now. What is it, babe? It's Pharrell. Piece by piece Lego movie. Yeah, piece, Piece by piece Lego movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, surprisingly a Lego movie and it was fun. Well what's your review?
Speaker 1:You put so much pressure on me to get a precise. Oh, let's talk about generalities first. I don't need a number. A number comes at the end.
Speaker 2:Well, it was sort of like his life story. My favorite part is when he talked about synesthesia, which is a condition he has in which he sees color as sound. He hears something and he perceives it as color, and that depicted in the Lego movie was amazing.
Speaker 1:It's incredible right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he, I didn't really know much about him. What a very likable person he is and very talented, incredibly creative, and so many other people that he's worked with were a part of this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Lego bricks tell the life story of singer-songwriter and record producer Pharrell Williams. Pharrell or Pharrell.
Speaker 2:I always thought it was Pharrell Pharrell.
Speaker 1:Williams from his childhood in Virginia to his success in the music and fashion industry. It's that simple, I think the thing that I enjoyed so much is one I'm a huge fan of those Lego movies to start with is one I'm a huge fan of those lego movies to start with, but as they kind of depicted the beginning of the movie, um, I think it was organic, as told, that the easiest way for him to tell his entire story without boundaries is through the lego builder, and it was incredible to me because I'm a fan of that platform. I think it's incredible what they've done with the basic Lego movies and some of the Batman Legos and things like that. So what was your final number? What'd you give it?
Speaker 2:I would probably give it an 8.3.
Speaker 1:Well, that's a big one. I'm going to go a little bit higher because I think I'm going to go higher on this one, because I enjoyed it sitting there. But I also think in a way it's possibly groundbreaking doing a documentary that way and Missy Elliott and all of them to basically have a classic, literally by the book, classic documentary, sitting in chairs in studios, in living rooms and have it seamlessly done with the flashbacks and the you know the emotions there, all of it's there, his family dynamics there. So I'm going 9.1.
Speaker 1:It's a big one for me because I do think it's a little bit of a groundbreaker. All right, babe, give me a number between one, and I'm not going to do that much again. One in 12.
Speaker 2:Three.
Speaker 1:Oh, very low. Let's see what we get here. We are on to our. Let's see, I got to get on to our little playlist here and we're going to do this little playlist here and we're going to do this, Brian and for others, let's play it. And it's always cause Mac Miller always starts it. That's where we go, though. Three, one, two, three, dang it. It's a good song, though. Do you know it?
Speaker 2:Not yet. Oh, it's yours. Do you know it? Not yet, oh.
Speaker 1:It's yours For sure.
Speaker 2:But the question is is there anybody else? Is this Post Malone?
Speaker 1:It's Post Malone. Sign me up, post Malone, and it Post Malone, and it is 3, bailey Stacey. You must have it on yours, tay and Brian. It's almost the whole family. Alright babe, we're out of here. Look at that 54 minutes. It's our normal 55. We're back in the game.
Speaker 2:That was fun. Love you.
