Hara Hachi Bu, Validation & 35 Years of Marriage

It's been a while.

This week on Broken Tiles, Stacey and I settle back onto the couch after a long stretch of life happening in real time. We catch up on Stacey's recovery from surgery, celebrate our 35th wedding anniversary, and explore a few deceptively simple questions that ended up taking us much deeper than we expected.

We talk about the roles we assign ourselves without anyone asking, why it's so hard to say no when we really mean no, and what we're actually chasing when we feel the need to prove ourselves.

Along the way, we unpack family dynamics, validation, empathy, old patterns we inherited growing up, and the strange realization that sometimes the biggest expectations we carry are the ones we've quietly placed on ourselves.

As always, this isn't a podcast about experts offering advice. It's two people, four decades into life together, still trying to understand themselves, each other, and why curiosity continues to be one of the most powerful tools we have.

Also... there may or may not be a conversation about Hara Hachi Bu, unintentional misdemeanors, cleaning public bathrooms, and a movie review that completely falls apart.

Sometimes Broken Tiles is exactly that.

Transcript

Welcome Back And Health Update

SPEAKER_01 0:01

This is the Broken Tiles Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Podcast Cast.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Babe.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Hi, honey.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Oops.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Out of practice.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

What do we say? What do we um I think 80% of the time we start with It's been a while.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

It's been a while.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

I don't even know how long it's been.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

What was our last podcast?

SPEAKER_01 0:34

We had a guest on our last podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Who was it?

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Is it Russ?

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Kyle Terman.

unknown 0:41

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Kyle Terman was in and we talked. That was a great podcast. I just we listened to it the other day, uh, getting ready for this one. Um, it was a great conversation.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Yeah. So how do we handle this? Um, catch up a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

A little catch up from we always do a health update, and I think the health update was, I think, if I remember right, it was super positive in November, December when we did it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

And in the past six months, you basically just changed dizziness and potential re miraculous recovery from dizziness for a herniated disc and had surgery. Yep. And where are you at?

SPEAKER_01 1:23

I'm doing a lot better now. It took a long time. Healing was rough. But I'm this week is 12 weeks out since the surgery.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Yeah. And turnaround this last week.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Yeah, the last week it's been a huge difference.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yeah, I'm excited. I I finally see the light at the end of the tunnel, and I have to be careful not to overdo it. That's that's the biggest thing I need to stay on top of because I like to go hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

You do. And it's, I think that's the most, you know, you've heard from so many other people at the exact same surgery, and like everything else in life, um, all paths, all journeys are different for everybody on the same surgery. So yours will be the same.

New Studio And Community Podcasting

SPEAKER_02 2:05

And here we are at Sunny California Studios.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Which is uh the studio is fabulous, but the entire operation here is just it's just a remarkable new presence in town.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

It really is. And we've got a really nice not only are we here in the studios, they are a sponsor of the podcast. No joke, we still have our fun, uh, you know, broken down, bankrupt airlines who support really support the show. They're the ones really pulling the financial strings.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Intelligent change.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

And intelligent change who dumped us. Um David McIntosh, who's an actual cash sponsor, real life investment in the thing, still pales to Braniff and Pan Am.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

You know, my heart is with them. I have a mug at home somewhere still from you.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Um but it is a beautiful studio, and we're actually doing a little bit of filming. We won't think too much into it. But for those just listening on Apple and Spotify, um, super good vibe in here. Your old couch from your office. Um, you know, palm tree here, usually another palm tree when we're podcasting, nice little sunny California neon up here. And I think we're gonna evolve the studio a little bit to soundproof it, do a little production booth in the corner, but it's already comfy. It's already a super comfy environment here for what we're doing.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Um and the setup is always here, so it's not break, you know, break it down and put it back up again every time, which is great.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Yeah, and one thing you might not even know, because David and I have been talking about it, um, is that not talking about it, it is part of big part of where they're going with this is it's surf moto art gallery, and the back is a co-working space, the surf club at Sunny California. And part of their premier club membership um includes three hours of podcasting a month. Oh, wow. And so this equipment will be set up. All the employees are training on it so they can come in. So if you want to have a podcast, have your voice in the community, um, the lowest level you can do is walk in, hit record, um, take your micro SD and upload it yourself. And we also have packages. If you just want to record it, stop recording, we will produce it, edit it, and distribute it to Spotify and everything through the Sunny California Surf Club.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

That's very cool. I hadn't heard that.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Yeah, it's kind of cool because it, you know, allows us to, again, permanent this equipment. It's just been sitting here, anyways, for a month for our other podcasts as we filter them in. But I think it's another um vibe/slash perfect partnership with Sunny because you know, community voices, nonprofits will be able to come in here, and it does change the dynamic of a lot of the podcasting we've done has been out of the suitcase. Yes, you know, and so we do remote podcasting, um, still working with Cruise Cruise IO downtown. But this gives us that that you know situation where we can just come in, plug in, and we're we're good to go. So it's a good setup. It it totally is a good setup, you know. And I just realized that sitting on this side of the board, um I'm gonna have an issue with our little sound effects coming in.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Yes, you are.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Um, but if you can if you want to go into the first question, I can find something.

Shadow Self Cards And Part X

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Well, first off, uh, I want to talk about intelligent change. Oh, good.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Don't give me some box of questions. Will you buy me some time?

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Yeah, so we still have the three different different levels, which is close, closer, and closest. This black box is the shadow self edition. So this is really about things about yourself that you may not necessarily be aware of. So the questions are gonna lead you to consider like your deeper motivations and um kind of revealing uh self, I don't know, self-discovery, having moments of self-discovery and uh really considering uh why you do what you do, because we all you know operate in ways that we don't necessarily fully understand at times. And it's nice to have the opportunity to consider it.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

Does this also possibly um there something about stutz that's like the what is that little part he talked about?

SPEAKER_01 6:13

So he talks about part X.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Hold on, how's this?

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Oh, that's nice.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Oh, retro. Very oh, I'm into it.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Okay, so Stutz talks about part X, which is um it comes from the Jungian theory of the shadow self. Wow. So similar.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

And you come up with these words. So that's the Jungian theory of what?

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Of the shadow self.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

And if I eat 80% of my what my appetite says it is, it's called Harahachi Boo. Harahachi boo. Boo? Like in my my boo?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Are you a hundred percent on that boo?

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Well, now I'm not.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Now it's probably a question. But you're so confident around the house when you say it. You humiliate me when I can't remember. And that's because we're not recording.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

And now for the entire this goes in this goes into the National Archives. Do you know that? When we go on Apple Spotify, really your words right now, your bullshit. You know, the confidence you have in that. Haramachi Boo. If it's not right. Hararachi. Harhachi Boo. That is one that's the name of the episode. That's the name of the episode. Hararachi Boo. Look it up. All right, let's do a game show intro here.

SPEAKER_03 7:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Let's see if it plays.

unknown 7:42

Why is it?

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Oh, I'm I am. Do you know how retro this is? Wow. All right, bring it.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

It's like we're a kid from the 70s wearing our velour shirts and corbury pants.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

I think it might keep playing unless I'm careful here.

Saying Yes When You Mean No

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Okay. You ready for question number one?

SPEAKER_02 8:12

Of course I am.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Have you ever said yes to something when you really meant no?

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yeah. But this man.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Say more.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

I think it's um, I think in my life that would go into I'll give you the quickest answer, but there's millions of these. I mean, and that that's an exaggeration, but um you know this about me. It's like there's a little bit of as much forward-facing as this is, as much of all of it I like. I do have a tremendous amount of like social anxiety. And like um, the idea of something is always better than the actual nature of it. So yes to something could go as far as like um a family barbecue or a gathering. And it's just the weirdest thing. And I I try to go deeper in it. We've been talking therapy a little bit about it. Like, what is that thing where you say we're gonna meet them to do this? And it's like an immediate yes. I think that's my honest answer. But then something happens between my immediate yes and the day of doing it where I kind of talk myself into it. I don't want to, I would rather go anywhere but there right now.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

You let uh the anxiety creep in. Part X took over your brain.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

There, that's one. And then the other one, what is it? And this is one we have talked about on the podcast, but it goes to this question exactly, which is what is that thing where you spend $240 on concert tickets in San Francisco on a Tuesday night, six months ahead. And you it could not be more psyched. I text you, I'm psyched. I'm like, I can't believe we're going to see them fill in the blank. And then on Tuesday at four o'clock, we're like, yo, we gotta go in traffic out to San Francisco. We usually go to bed at eight or eight thirty. This concert's gonna end at 11:30. That puts us back on 101, unless we get a hotel for the dog and stay up there on a Tuesday night, not practical. No, but those would be two. This isn't the most intimate question ever, but those are two for sure that I look at and think like yes and then no.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Right, right. Yeah, those are good answers.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

How about you?

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Um mine is intimate. I mean, there are times with intimacy that I may have said or indicated yes when I really was not into it.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Well, that actually sounds like a misdemeanor. Hold on. Am I on the other side of this?

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Is it well there have been times, but I I look at it now as um like it's taken me a long time, uh like I mean, even until quite recently, to fully understand. Oops.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

I'm all over the place today. That's unfair to you.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Understand what I want and what I need and claiming that for myself.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Right. I think it it goes back to um that again. I think Eve and clearly we're talking about since it mine was left and yours went right down to intimacy. Yeah. I think it does go down to like, you know, the other thing just perfect tying.

Marriage Longevity And Sexual Agency

SPEAKER_02 11:23

So I want to tie a lot of these questions into today is our 35th wedding anniversary.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

It sure is.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

And so um, but I think it's uh 90s, zeros, ones. So four decades we've been together overall, you know, and almost like full decades now, because we're in 26. So it's all of the nineties, all of the zeros, all of the ones.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Decade math does not quite resonate with me, but I know you got married married in ninety one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

And that's all of the nineties.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

I know.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

I know all of the zeros, all of the ones, and now we're six years into the zeros again. Four decades together.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

So that one's four decades.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

I think this is an interesting way to think about this, though, as far as not you can talk more on this because it's your answer, is like I think you can almost the reason I said that brilliantly was because um it sets up for this follow-up question, which I think your evolution in that capacity has been decade to decade to decade to decade.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Without a doubt.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Well, let's let's reel this in a little bit to think about uh our marriage, 35 years, or a relationship that has depth and and is long lasting. Sometimes we, you know, you spend a long time with somebody, whether it's, you know, maybe a sibling or even your parent or uh a relationship like we have or a friendship, you kind of grow up together along the way.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

And you have to have a lot of grace for each other because we may not necessarily grow at the same pace at the same time. We go through different things. We might be together, but we're on different roads. And I think it's important to kind of hold that in your mind and in your heart in order to have longevity in a relationship.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

That that's it's just really good. I mean, it's it's really good. And I think the other thing, you know, to speak of right now is um what do you bring into that relationship when you're 21 years old um and 20, turning 21 for you gets deeper than we want right now. But you're you're starting to talk about um my expectations of sex as a man, you know, gr born on, you know, stealing Playboy magazines as a kid.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

And growing up in a patriarchal home.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

Of course, and and you know, smoking cigarettes in Grant Street Park, looking at Playboys when you're nine, ten years old, um, not fully absorbing all of it, but warp warping your sense of what your expectations are. Yeah. So my expectations of of sex, like, you know, for sure, were um kind of like put out of bounds based on hanging out with older teenage kids, um, being in that environment, you know, um uh and it's very hard to recover that when you are, you know, five years, ten years. So by the time I met you, that kind of thought had been on my head for 13 years, patriarchy down, man kind of ruled the world in some semblance of it. Um, you know, and and I never felt like I was that guy.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

No, you never would have said that this is the way the world is.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

And luckily I'd had a couple girlfriends before you, and then one older one that was just like kind of like, yo, that's not how it works. You know, it's like, and that was helpful. Yeah. It was like, you know, it's like it's like, you know, we don't need to be in and out of this whole thing in 17 seconds.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

Right. But I think the other thing that's important to recognize is we grow up in this petri dish. You know, our formative years are in the Petri dish cultured by our parents in that situation. And, you know, I I did not have a an example of a healthy relationship, and it was kind of confusing because my dad, very patriarchal, really just in an authoritarian as um his parenting style. And my mom would blast Helen Reddy, I am woman, hearing me roar at 6 a.m., vacuuming the house and singing it loudly, uh, as sort of a F you to my dad, I think.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

That's interesting because that's like second or third time you've said that on the podcast. But but in totally different context. Yes. And that's the amazing thing about it. It's like this, you know, there's there's for sure you've mentioned that on the podcast, um, but never the answer to this question in that sort of this um this massive um kind of like uh uh what's the word I'm not non- not dichotomy. What's the word I'm looking for where it's an imbalance or two? Dualism dualism a little bit, whatever it may be in the same household, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Yeah, it was very confusing because you know it was clear that my mom was trying to to give to my sister and I these feminist values, and I do hold them dear. But at the same time, she did not live a life that reflected those values. And so it was really confusing.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

That's exactly it. I mean, so that's that's a really good question.

Family Scripts And Old Expectations

SPEAKER_02 16:45

So um all right, we got a couple more sponsors, but let's go to our first little break here with um Eastern Airlines. I would absolutely ask my employees to fly first class if it didn't cost any more than coach. It's the first time an airline is looking at the businessman to get a break and lure all the businessmen to fly to trying to understand the needs of the business traveler. Why buy a baloney when you can get $10 for the same price? Um fly two first-class round trips, get a free round trip coach ticket. Eastern Airlines, it was a great business model till it wasn't. Thank God for them though. We don't need this sunny California nonsense. Oh my god, we don't need a physical space, neon signs.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Um oops. I don't have to deal with this in their lattes delivered to the podcast room from the cafe. This Eastern Airlines still makes pales. Sunny California pales in comparison to the business model at Eastern Airlines.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Uh I beg to differ.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

We're doing a lightning round a little bit because we are here. Um, this podcast will be pretty quick uh because we are um up against Oh, I'm sorry. I do remember one other thing we do here, and I loved it, and trying to keep my mind on it is we answered those questions, you answer those questions, but you do a good job here of like for the outside audience, let's say you're dating for a week, let's say you are dating for a year, 10 years, married for 20, married for one. How does that question I think I already covered that? To people that weren't even here, you said that? Like how this would be super helpful to our one-week relationship.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

I didn't frame it in that way, but uh what I did say is longevity in a relationship. We talked about that.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Aaron Powell And just a heads up when I say that from a professional standpoint, what I'm looking for is to buy a couple seconds. Oh. And so like when I'm asking you to like basically stretch a little bit, when I need you to stretch, you know, sort of the conversation, um, it's not a one-word answer and say we already did it, because that puts it right back on me.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

So if um if you've you've started a relationship, maybe you're one week in, like you suggested, and thinking about this question, have you ever said yes to something when you really meant no? Think about uh if you're saying yes to something within your relationship, you're not really reflecting your true self. And in many ways, I kind of feel like I don't know how we got so lucky to last 35 years because we both did a lot of growing up. We did a lot of growing up. And we we prioritized our relationship, but there were there were seasons, phases that it wasn't it wasn't great. It was hard, and which is normal. I mean, that happens in relationships.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

And apparently no consent misdemeanors.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Apparently so.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Yeah. So good.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Number two.

Roles We Play Without Being Asked

SPEAKER_01 19:56

This is the closer.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

You have to answer this one first, so okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Oh, this is a hard one. Is there a role you often find yourself in even when no one asks you to play it?

SPEAKER_02 20:09

To roll you off. Yeah, you're gonna be quick in this one.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Um, it just came to me.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

I'm listening. But I'm also producing.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

I would say peacemaker.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Interesting. Um family work? What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Particularly with my sibling and my mother. And it might be do either of them listen to this podcast? I don't think either of them do. So I I think it's a it's a role that I put myself in. They they both have frustrations with their relationship with each other, and I don't want it to be like that. And I feel like, oh, and this is me, I I'm fixing, and I know that that's not appropriate with all the years of motivational interviewing training that I've had, nobody wants a fixer.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

And I find myself doing it because my heart hurts about it. So nobody's asking me to do that. I am taking it on upon myself.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

How do you find your way out of that?

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Or is there that's a really good question.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

I know.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

It is. You've learned a lot in therapy, haven't you, boy?

SPEAKER_02 21:38

What do you think I do here? Honey, what do I do?

SPEAKER_00 21:43

You stir shit up?

SPEAKER_02 21:45

No, I asked money questions.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Oh, yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

And the only thing better than my questions?

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Your bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Well, the follow-ups.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Yeah. I'm I'm not supposed to question It's the bullshit. Yeah, it is the bullshit. Um

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Did I distract you?

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yeah, I forgot what you asked me again. How do I get around that? Yeah. So it's really about being mindful and and recognizing that nobody's asking me to play that role. And it's not so this is this is really the big deal. It's not my responsibility to fix their relationship. And that for some reason is hard for me. And I think it's interesting. I I've I've put some thought into this because in our families of origin, everybody has a role. And I think I've considered myself the peacemaker, but I don't remember actively doing that as a young kid. But there's a lot I don't remember about that time in my life because it was really stressful. So I'm not quite I'm not entirely certain why I do that.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Did you answer the path out? Because I what's the path out there?

SPEAKER_01 22:56

It's just recognizing it's not my responsibility.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

And do you but I'm saying that like so you do that. So do you present that to um so walk yourself all the way into the situation that would would put you in that spot? And people might have an expectation that you're gonna be a peacemaker. How do you handle that communication of that?

SPEAKER_01 23:15

I don't think that they have an expectation that I'm a peacemaker.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Well that might solve it. So you're just you can be more of an active listener without putting a burden on yourself of fixing it.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Yeah, they don't have that expectation. I do. I do it to myself.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

That was good.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Yeah, it's um it was good for me to think about that because it's something I need to let go of.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Do you know how good it was?

SPEAKER_01 23:39

How good.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Because I fucked myself and didn't think of myself during your answer. I always I always ignore your answers as I'm crafting my perfect response.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Yeah, I know. I know how that goes.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Jesse.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

He's a hero here. Jesse's line was sorry, I didn't hear anything you were saying because I was thinking about what I was gonna say next.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

I love that. I bring it up in trainings. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Sorry, I didn't listen to a word you were saying.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

I'm gonna give you the question again, give you a little opportunity to think. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Are you woman splaining me?

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Yes, I am. That was really Is there a role you often find yourself in even when no one asks you to play it?

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Okay, back in the therapy couch. Is this the second question or the third? God damn. Um, I think I know abstractly what my answer is here, and it's a role that um it's very similar to yours, I guess, where you get it, where I've created now this one doesn't even make it necessarily to the other side of it. Um I can't I'm trying to think yours actually makes it through where you actually try to do a little piece piece. I don't know if this ever makes it outside of my crazy brain, which is a role I've created where I can handle everything. And I can I can handle everything within the context of me. No one will ever have to know about it, and it just piles on and piles on and piles on. And I know we always use the the in this podcast, we always talk about like the particularly the first 15 years, finances and things like that. But that's the the beginning of it. That's the beginning of um of all of it. And I think what I do is I take on other people's emotions, I take on other people's problems, and I even try to fix it. You know, here's the thing that kind of fucks us sometimes is I try to fix it from my side without them even asking, without them even, I just kind of recognize that I can do this for them. Now, this goes into some deeper shit where we've done that financially through the business for other people. And we, you know, let's say a couple businesses ago where we lost a lot of what we had while I was lifting some other people up or keeping them treading water financially.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

Um, nobody asked for that. And in theory, I should have, you know, done that. I should have, you know, the the numbers and the business should have dictated, you're gone, you're gone, you're gone. Sorry about it, didn't work out.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

But I just kind of had that so I have this um fixer mentality. But the weird part about it is it doesn't make it over for recognition from them or even spoken to them.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

But I kind of do it to, I think in hindsight, to my own detriment, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Well, I've always thought of it as you have you operate from a place of empathy in everything that you do. I don't think I've shared this on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Even so, yeah, to your detriment. You will clean up a public toilet so the next person ha doesn't have to deal with what you saw.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

If you have said that before, I'll say the same thing again. I know I said when you say that. How dare you?

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Well, it's sweet. I mean, you do it for me, but sometimes you do it even if it's I'm not going to do it. You just do it everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

I do it everywhere. And I and I do not do it generally in um, I think men make their own pit. I only do it in the the the Yeah, and every gender. Every gender bathroom.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

Because I just I don't know what it is because it's the for me, I've been in grosser situations. There's nothing that a huge handful of towels won't take care of into the dumpster, wash your hands three times. But the thought of me walking in grossed out by something, um and the thought of me either going in complaining to the front, which may or may not do like yo, that bathroom's blank, but it doesn't help the next person walking in. And I just I think it's such an easy, simple, quick thing to do so that that person doesn't have to experience that. Um I think it changes somebody's dinner. I think it changes their their their you know, it for me it's just it's just a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Yeah. But that that's where this this sense of trying to do something good for somebody to make their life easier, I think that's that it's it's a true kindness. It's how you it's how you live your daily life. It's one of the things I really love about you. Um, but it can be to your detriment. And so it would be helpful for you to be able to discern when is this not good for me? When am I infringing upon my own well-being in whatever realm that might be? Financial, spiritual, physical, you know, what all of those different realms that we all operate in.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

Right. Right. Now it's a it's a really good one.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

So how might we uh think about this for that's your job. Uh because you're trying to think of what you're gonna do next. Am I oh, it's the aha moment.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Snuck it in.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Yes, you did. Okay, so thinking about if you're yeah, at the onset of a relationship, maybe um if there's a role you find yourself in, even when nobody asks you to play, and it's it doesn't serve you well, it's important to be aware of it and not let those maybe bad habits creep into the beginning of relationship so that you can grow something that's healthier.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

I mean, that's really good.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Well, what about for um like maybe not a romantic relationship, like a a friendship or um a parent or you know, there's uh many other relationships that we have.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

How would you well I think when you think about this the my my um uh my feeling on this is um that it it doesn't I think when you get down to like the specific answer of this question, it gets a little kind of like myopic. I think the answer to these questions are these questions can maybe, if answered with like honesty and sort of like transparency, can help you at any point in your life in a in a business relationship, in a friendship, and all of it. This the same question works in business.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

It's about self-reflection.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

That's exactly it. And I think I think this question, one day, seven days, first day of work as a manager with say 20 people under, whatever it may be, I think the ability to say what is what efficiencies in your day, you can phrase it any which way you want. What is what is getting in the way of you managing these people? What is getting in the way of um, you know, I think this question is nuanced. And I think that you can look into it saying, like, what what obstacles am I putting up possibly in my own way to either have an effective or relationship or to be um maybe unburden myself a little bit? And that could be love, friendship, work, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Uh yeah. Yeah, it doesn't even have to be a rel a relationship. It's how you operate in the world.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

We are doing such a lightning round. Do you want to do a review?

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Okay. I'm not prepared, but I'll wing it.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

You'll be prepared.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Because we just saw it.

Quick Take On Disclosure

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Disclosure day. Spielberg. Aliens. What'd you think?

SPEAKER_01 31:31

Well, like I told you on our drive home, I really wanted to like it. And it had some I don't know, problems.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

It's a it's a speed round. Um list a couple of the problems without any spoilers.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Oh, how do I do that? I mean just uh plot holes.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Things that didn't make sense. Things that there was no explanation for why people were doing what they were doing and um panicked. It was unclear.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Zero to ten with tenths of a point.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Four point one.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

I think I might be given my second score of this in our podcast history. I'm a professional movie reviewer, you know. Zero. I fucking hated it. It's zero.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Yeah, you were sensed.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

And I was so excited for that movie. I'm so game for that.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

It was your birthday adventure.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

Um Spielberg, 70% of the time, money.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

And and there's been a few missed ups, but um, I have nothing really good to say about this movie.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Emily Blunt is a She's fine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

She's fine.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

And her lead, uh I love that dude, and I can't think of his name's name.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Really good podcasting here.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

I'll drop it in like with a different voice in the post-edit, so it makes me sound like I just said Josh O'Connor. He was fantastic, and I'll put his name in right here.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Yeah, yeah, I like it.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

That might be hilarious if I do it. No, we can move right on from it because I hated that movie. I think it was underachieving. I think it didn't move the meter on that genre um on any level. Massive plot holes, um, two and a half hours long.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

It seemed antiquated uh in many ways.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Yeah, that was my thought walking away. Is like it feels like uh somebody that that movie would have been so powerful, possibly even as it stood as an hour and 45 minute or two-hour movie in 1981 or 79, it would have been shocking.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Even 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

No, because I think the the some of the stuff on like um uh you know Area 51 and all the different things we talk about have been really kind of like laid out a little bit more. I'm thinking like in that peak time of like 79, 70s, when people were getting super interested in, you know, government cover-ups, things like that, it would have been more shocking, like what if there's a huge government cover-up? I think people in 2026, it I think he's so disconnected in his, you know, kind of palace there from the sensitivities of Americans right now that if you talk to somebody right now that the government is kind of fucking with a little bit a little bit, is that shocking?

SPEAKER_03 34:28

No.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Would you be shocked if the government's hiding shit from us? You know, or or or they've had been hiding it for 80 years. All of that stuff, I get it, but it's not like this big drop the mic moment that they used to think. So um so true. Don't go so fast, don't go so fast.

SPEAKER_03 34:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

I can't believe how good we're doing. We're kind of blowing through this. Movie review, aha's in.

Proving Yourself And Chasing Closure

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Okay, question number three: the closest variety.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

Scared. You should be. Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Um, when you feel the urge to prove yourself, what are you really asking for?

SPEAKER_02 35:07

I don't know if that's the closest one we've ever done. Um, it doesn't have to be, but um self-reflection. Can you say it one more time?

SPEAKER_01 35:15

When you feel the urge to prove yourself, what are you really asking for? And maybe think about what in what areas do you feel the need to prove yourself?

SPEAKER_02 35:29

Um that's a really, really good one right there. I think, again, it's another, you know, we may as well open up the door to the therapy session. Um I think I've got this this vision or have had this idea. I always feel like I'm just gonna go a little deeper with this one because it's it's just a general thought. I don't even know if it's gonna be an answer. I always feel like I'm right on the outside of just holding on to what I think is going to be where I kind of get into that cruise control of my life. Like or I I feel like I'm on the outside looking at myself a lot of the times. Um, and it's maddening because I feel like I'm just on the back end of whether it be an idea or whether it be a business or whatever it may be. Um, you know, and I think I want to prove to myself, I think if that's the question, yeah, that, you know, all of these different kind of creative ideas, these different things I've done, these amazing paths we've gone down, I just feel, I feel unfilled in, and I have also come, this is this is sort of two truths at one time, which is I also kind of feel like as time's gone by at 58 years old now, that I also realize that's never going to happen. Because even if we get everything in this current version of vibes with the TVs, the podcast, the magazine, billboards, all the stuff that we're doing, great partnerships, T's are crossed, I's are dotted, we're building this company. Um, I also realize, you know, let's say right now I snap my fingers, thousand TVs, and the economy comes back, magazine is doing a little better, and we go to 30 podcasts. That's not the answer. Does that make sense? Like, yeah, I think I think the if I'm answering this question right, I think what I'm trying to prove is that I can close that gap, you know, kind of have that be successful. I've been successful, and I already know that that's a false leader. What I'm saying is like I feel like with all of these, let's just talk about it as it is, with all these businesses. Um, the the portfolios, the debt portfolios, the toy company, um, landscaping to a certain extent with all the things we want to do and vibes, you know, the the the debt portfolios right to the precipice, everything done right, rug pulled. And we don't have to go back through all that. Um, toy business, right to the precipice, everything sort of organized, everything on a national level done, rug kind of pulled in a certain way. Yeah. Um, you know, uh, and so I kind of look at it in in a few different facets, like, and I think we just talked about it last night at our dinner. Um, I think I'm constantly in the state of uh waiting for a rug to be pulled. But then I realized when I look back on these three or four experiences, um, to kind of reiterate the term, I hadn't crossed all the T's dot the I's before, I was younger, right? And we kind of go through these ones. This one is not the lesson here is um this is not the same as before, you know, and and so I'm carrying baggage that's not real fear, generated by fear because of what you went through. But I think the answer to that question is I think uh, you know, um I'm chasing a fulfillment. What's the exact question?

SPEAKER_01 38:41

When you feel the urge to prove yourself, what are you really asking for?

SPEAKER_02 38:47

Closure.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

Closure. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:49

I think closure, but here's the thing. This is the fucked up part of it is closure that I know closure being that closure as far as like this is where I'm kind of going through this right now because vibes is working out, all these things are happening that it's it's not that simple. You know, like like I just said, if we go to, you know, we're at kissing in the high weeds right now, but let's say it just all happens, like our two-year plan happens in tomorrow. Right. I still have so much shit to to work on and so many things to do that I know it's not that. That's just a thing. It's just a thing that we're doing, and it is amazing, and it's making this difference, all of that stuff. But um, I think what I'm looking for is closure, and maybe what I'm looking for is closure to that idea that that's gonna solve something or put me into some autopilot. You'll never be an autopilot unless. Do you need a break uh because of the depth of that answer?

SPEAKER_01 39:48

No, I can handle it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

It's a lot. I can pause this whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

No, I was thinking about stutz and what are his three non-negotiables for life.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

I you can have to I don't ever remember.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

One you usually remember them more than I do. Um constant work.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

Oh, yeah, constant work, um, adversity, and uh pain.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

Yes. And so it sounds what I'm hearing you say is you're waiting to have that moment where you reach a pinnacle and it's it's a summit that's long lasting and you don't have to work hard anymore.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

Never not work hard, but it's some kind of like massive satisfaction I would have. Like, like I I won that. I won that business, or I won that idea. Because remember, it all starts as like this little idea, and then what you want is you want it to kind of finish and go like one.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

That um the winning verb is that and you you're a competitive person.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

I am, but then I I realized this is where time gets interesting because I have to reconcile two things at once. Once is that you ask me that in my 30s or 40s, yes, yes, kind of some sort of winning. But at this age right now, and the everything we've gone through, is there is no winning at say life. There is no winning because the the same daily, you know, obstructions kind of happen. Sure. Um, and so I think I've I've I've evolved there. But that that ended up being a great question. What you mean?

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Well, the other thing I just want to um mention is it seems like this the context of this is only in business and finances, right? Does it transfer to any other part of your life?

SPEAKER_02 41:35

Well not really, I don't think.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Yeah, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

I think I think I'm my rest of my life I've kind of got a handle on my own mortality, our relationship, where my spot is. I'm better at life than I am at this, um, you know, as far as that part of it. So my gut feels I would think about it. No, but I would I would mostly say no.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

Yeah, I think I would agree with you. It creates a lot of angst for you for some reason.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

It does. What's yours?

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Um feel the urge to prove yourself. I think for me, it's more about validation. Um places that I have felt like I've had to prove myself as in my relationship with my sister, my relationship with my dad. Two people that I have felt like they didn't see me for who I am, didn't see my worth necessarily. And, you know, it's probably maybe it's more my perception than reality. I don't know. But that those are areas, and you know, there was a time where Taylor and I had this huge fight, Taylor, our daughter. And we both, I you know, looking back now, this this happened early on in the pandemic, so 2020. So now there was a lot of hurt feelings involved on my part. I'm assuming on her part too. Um she does she doesn't want to talk about it anymore when I've tried to bring it up.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

But I think both of us were trying to be validated and heard and didn't feel like we were getting that from each other. And that's how it escalated to the level that it did.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

Yeah. Heavy. I've never I've never had a problem with Taylor. I've never voted Taylor.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

So oh my goodness, you guys have hung up on each other.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Talk about winning.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

Winning. Um all right, that was really

Wrap Up Thanks And Reggae Plug

SPEAKER_02 43:41

good. So we'll wrap it up here from um Sunny California Studios. Again, thank you to David Macintosh and the crew. We're gonna have him on as a guest.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

Yes. Um and we'll have Mike Howard on as a guest sometime in the future too.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Yep, and Santa Cruz Vibes, you know, clearly we're we own it, but we also have to thank them because, you know, without that individual LLC, this doesn't exist, but we're really growing this network and I'm excited about it. Um and we'll try to keep it more regular. We've got an obligation, you know.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

Um Well, and we enjoy it so much. I think now that I'm feeling so much better, I see it uh more achievable to do this more regularly.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

Yeah, and I think we'll probably go one, one, one, one, one is my thought, which is that mean um it's a mystery. It's what it is. No, I mean mean like us and then a guest, us then a guest, us then a guest, because I think we've got so many compelling guests, so many conversations to be had. Um, a lot of times we're right in the middle of of something where it's whether it be an author, whether it be um a musician, or whether it even be a nonprofit we're working with. Um it'd be nice to kind of mix it in here. So I think like as we were telling um David before we got on the airs, that you know, uh it's a good format for guests. It's I think there's nice icebreakers and we kind of have fun with it. So um is that it? I think we uh I think that's it.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

How are you gonna close us out with your new soundboard on your phone?

SPEAKER_02 45:01

I just don't know. I think I do this like I do on the other ones. It's our music. We own this music.

SPEAKER_03 45:06

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

Music by Osha Brodsky. That's right. Select a seven music. He did our full bumper music intro, outro. I think I like yours so much I don't even play my intro anymore much.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

No, you don't, do you?

SPEAKER_02 45:20

No, because I think I think like yours a lot better.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

So um Um speaking of Osha, do you want to talk about Reggae on the Wharf?

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Yeah, we may as well throw it out there. Um, August 8th, uh 3 to 8 p.m., Reggae on the Wharf 2. Maybe next episode will announce the lineup and stuff like that with um Santa Cruz Wharf, Humble Sea Brewery, Santa Cruz Vibes, media, it was selective stuff and music. It was a huge scene last year, and we can got a little more promotion going in. Good call there, though, babe. Love you.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

Love you. Happy anniversary.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

Oh, sorry. There we go. Happy anniversary to babe.